tomd Senior Member Joined: 23 Jan 2012 Posts: 10 Location: Central NJ Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Mon Jan 23, 2012, 1:29pm Subject: baratza output - how much coffee?
i am looking to upgrade my grinder from a blade-type and don't have any experience with other grinders.....except what i can glean from the internet and guru postings here on CG.
i brew in a technivorm, which is labeled up to 10 "cups" but filled to the tippity-top is probably more like 12 (watch out for the plume!)
if 10 cups is 1.25 liters then 12 cups would be 1.5 liters of water
for 10+ cups i am using in the neighborhood of 8 fluid ounces ( a little less than 1 cup) of beans or in the vicinity of 85 grams or ~3 ounces by weight (it probably varies as i don't actively measure) , so for more than 10 cups (eg 12) i would need more than that
the virtuoso comes with a 5 oz grinds bin......presuming that's a volume measurement, that doesn't sound like it's nearly enough since i am using a little less than 1 cup / 8 fl oz of grinds right now. the esatt0 (eg for virtuoso) comes with a ~3 oz. grinds bin......definitely not enough i think the vario-w comes with a 5 oz. grinds in the vario (non-w) comes with an 8 oz. grinds bin
so full capacity, the vario will barely meet my needs for a pot of coffee....then there's the concern that the bin is 8 oz if you fill to the top and even- it-out by hand, but what machine will output that evenly?
i can imagine using something other than the supplied grinds bin on a virtuoso like some kind of other container, but what is the output of the virtuoso for drip when running on a timer which is max 60 seconds? if it is much less than 8 oz, then i am stuck.
i don't want to have to grind twice for a pot of coffee. The fewer buttons i have to press in the a.m., the better
i guess the underlying question is , how do you people get a full pot of coffee?
also, i think i read the vario-w will crank out a max of 150 g of coffee....if my paltry 85 grams is approximating 1 cup / 8 oz and the vario-w grinds bin capacity is 5 ounces, where the heck is all that coffee going to go ?
is my math wrong ? am i interpreting oz as volume instead of weight for the baratza bin capacity ? , please school me !
oh, and hi everybody ! i just signed up today, first post......a big thanks for everyone's past postings and to CG for enabling this !
yakster Senior Member Joined: 25 Feb 2009 Posts: 1,006 Location: San Jose, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Factory / La Peppina... Grinder: Vario / Kyocera Vac Pot: Yama 8 + Pyrex Lox-in Rod Drip: Brazen / Kalita / Chemex /... Roaster: Behmor
Posted Mon Jan 23, 2012, 3:26pm Subject: Re: baratza output - how much coffee?
Tom,
I've got the Vario (non-w) and since I'm up to four coffee drinkers in the house now I'm grinding 50 grams of coffee and adding 900 ml of water to brew 800 ml of coffee. I haven't really looked in the hopper, but it doesn't seem like the 50 grams even starts to fill the hopper all that much, plus you have coffee in the throat of the grinder. I know that the Virtuoso has optional hopper extensions, but I don't think your going to come even close to filling a hopper and those terms are probably mass ounces instead of volumetric ounces. 8 ounces = 227 grams. That's why I just think in grams and liters now. 62.5 grams of coffee for a 1 liter batch is my nominal target and I figure that the ground will absorb about twice their weight in water so I use extra water to make the batch size come out right.
I've got a gram scale here at work (for espresso) and a 1/2 cup measuring cup (for oatmeal) and I just measured out 1/2 level cup of the Kenya AA Mutwewathi beans I roasted up this weekend and it weighed in at 44 grams. I wouldn't worry about getting close to filling up the hopper, but if you like, I'll take a closer look when I dump in 50 grams tomorrow and see how full the Vario hopper gets before grinding.
tomd Senior Member Joined: 23 Jan 2012 Posts: 10 Location: Central NJ Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Mon Jan 23, 2012, 4:40pm Subject: Re: baratza output - how much coffee?
i'm not so concerned with the input hopper, but the output/grinds bin. your 62.5 nominal per 1 liter is about the same as my (roughly) 85 per (a little more than) 1.25 liters. So i am fully tuned in to whatever you have to say regarding the output bin (not the input/hopper) and how much it fills up when you use 50 grams ( a little more than 1/2 cup , preground), since that approximates half of my anticipated maximum usage per pot .....i am quite interested to hear if the output /grinds bin looks less than 1/2 full, post grind.
also, are you happy with your grinder's performance for drip (ie, consistency and fines) ?
yakster Senior Member Joined: 25 Feb 2009 Posts: 1,006 Location: San Jose, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Factory / La Peppina... Grinder: Vario / Kyocera Vac Pot: Yama 8 + Pyrex Lox-in Rod Drip: Brazen / Kalita / Chemex /... Roaster: Behmor
Posted Mon Jan 23, 2012, 8:24pm Subject: Re: baratza output - how much coffee?
I'll take a closer look at the grinds bin on my Vario, but it's not very full even when grinding 60+ grams for larger batches such as siphon.
As for grinder satisfaction, I use the Vario for both espresso and everything else and switch back and forth between grinds regularly. That's where the Vario shines. Prior to this, I used a small hand-grinder (Kyocera CM 45-CF) for espresso and a Cuisanart false burr grinder for everything else. The Kyocera was fine for espresso, but a lot of work for multiple shots (I use it at work now) and the Cuisanart was not good, I ended up with stalled vac pots because of the fines. The Vario was a vast improvement. I was looking at the Baratza Precisio, but didn't want to wait for the release date so I pulled the trigger on the Vario.
Others can chime in, but I believe that you may get fewer fines when grinding for coarse grinds with the Precisio or the Virtuoso (which now has the same burrs as the Precisio) which may be something to consider in your case. I still see fines with the Vario and sometimes I'll have a slow drain on a Clever Coffee Dripper which may be fines related, but it's really pretty good. The Vario is also small and fairly quiet and Baratza has a good reputation for customer service with affordable replacement parts available.
The only other grinder I can compare it to is the OE Pharos which I had for a week (part of a traveling roadshow and unfortunately I had to send it on to the next person). The grinds on that were really nice for both espresso and pour-over, but it was a large manual grinder.
yakster Senior Member Joined: 25 Feb 2009 Posts: 1,006 Location: San Jose, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Factory / La Peppina... Grinder: Vario / Kyocera Vac Pot: Yama 8 + Pyrex Lox-in Rod Drip: Brazen / Kalita / Chemex /... Roaster: Behmor
Posted Tue Jan 24, 2012, 10:00am Subject: Re: baratza output - how much coffee?
So, a bit more on how I prep the coffee in the morning, I see that there's more to the original question then just bin capacity.
I'll come downstairs and flip on the power to my Bunn BTX after I let the dogs out and then I start my morning routine. When I come back down, the water is warmed up and I'll use a kitchen scale to measure out 50 grams into the lid of my Vario hopper, then place the lid on top of the Vario and flip it over. I press the third button (set for about 45 seconds grind time for larger batches) and hit start to start grinding while I grab my water vessel (bottom half of a Silex Jewel Tea Victory vacuum pot) and fill it up with softened water to 900 ml as weighed on the kitchen scale. Once the coffee I ground, I pour it into the filter in the basket, lock and load the Bunn and pour in the 900 ml water into the top and start the bloom by closing the lid for five seconds, pausing, another five seconds then waiting for 30 - 45 seconds before closing the lid once more to brew the coffee. This helps pre-wet the coffee and get rid of excess CO2 so that the basket doesn't overflow and the ground coffee is not insulated from the water by escaping gasses. That's about it, I'll rotate the basket to even out the soaking of the grinds a bit and I'll weigh out the four cups of coffee (3 x 150 ml for everyone else + 350 ml for me).
It's a pretty easy routine, I used to hand-pour the coffee in a Chemex / Kone setup, but with the number of additional coffee drinkers, making 800 ml was taking way too much time and effort in the morning and I have other things to take care of to get the Wife and kids out the door. I'd prefer the hand-pour method over auto-drip, but now that I've got the grinder dialed in, it works pretty well.
Bottom line, Tom, I don't think you have anything to worry about with a Baratza grinder not being able to grind a full pots worth of coffee in the morning either in terms of time allowed or grind bin capacity. I've ground up full bags of coffee before for relatives who didn't have a grinder and wanted it pre-ground—I've since gifted them with grinders—and that's when you'll start running into hopper capacity / grind time issues.
tomd Senior Member Joined: 23 Jan 2012 Posts: 10 Location: Central NJ Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Tue Jan 24, 2012, 11:35am Subject: Re: baratza output - how much coffee?
chris,
that additional question came out of bewilderment; i did not grasp that the size of the output grinds bin was given in weight (oz) and not volume (fluid oz). even now, it still doesn't seem a practical measure since, for example, 8 oz of espresso grind will take up less space than 8 oz of french-press grind.....however, in retrospect, it probably isn't that much of a difference for this relatively small amount.
what would nail it shut is if you indicated how many of those oatmeal 1/2 cups it takes to fill the output grinds bin, but i chuckle at the thought of someone shoveling that many coffee beans especially since i think you've already answered my underlying question ; the specified capacity must be in weight not volume.
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