Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Coffee: Machines and Brewing Methods
why bother temp surfing, just listen to machine light?
Home Espresso Machines
Watch videos with Gail & Kat, Rocket, Jura Capresso, Saeco, Rancilio, Quick Mill, Nespresso
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Coffee > Machines > why bother temp...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Author Messages
Aristoc
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Dec 2013
Posts: 12
Location: Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Dec 13, 2013, 5:41am
Subject: why bother temp surfing, just listen to machine light?
 

Saeco Poemia

I was wondering why we bother temp surfing. After you prime the machine, when the machine light tells you it's ready to brew, then you start to brew. The cold water coming in causes some cooling, but the heater turns on anyway so it balances out. The machine is ready to brew when the light tells you and after priming according to the manufacturer . Isn't that the best? You really can't go wrong here assuming  you have instructions and understand them.

Even if you temp surf, when you start to brew cool water causes cooling, the heater turns on again and the same thing happens. The temp fluctuates. So why not just follow the manufacturer instructions and save the trouble.

Thanks
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Nurk2
Senior Member
Nurk2
Joined: 3 Oct 2013
Posts: 75
Location: Syracuse
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggio Classic
Grinder: Gaggio MDF
Drip: French Press
Posted Fri Dec 13, 2013, 7:05am
Subject: Re: why bother temp surfing, just listen to machine light?
 

I don't know the Saeco Poemia.

Here's a pretty revealing/convincing overview of the importance and effectiveness of temperature surfing on the Gaggia Classic:

Click Here (www.home-barista.com)

 
If it sounds good, it is good.
~ Duke Ellington

If you sound bad on Squire through a Peavey Bandit, you're not going to sound good on a PRS through a Badcat.

www.danskidmore.com
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
Aristoc
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Dec 2013
Posts: 12
Location: Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Dec 13, 2013, 8:03am
Subject: Re: why bother temp surfing, just listen to machine light?
 

The Saeco Peomia is a stainless steel boiler.

a short u tube video where a guy has put a temp probe on the boiler and in the styrofoam cup is here


his video shows him brewing on the temperature downswing. If you read through thisp persons comments he has since changed his practice to brewing on the temp upswing..just before the ready light turns on.

all i am saying is might as just wait for the light to turn on anyways.

well iguess these are questions of any newb who is learning his machine.

thanks
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,722
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Fri Dec 13, 2013, 8:06am
Subject: Re: why bother temp surfing, just listen to machine light?
 

The reason for temp surfing is to get a consistent temp. The click type thermostats installed on SBDU machines have up to a 20 deg F swing in temp so unless you take pains to always catch the temp swing in the same place(temp surfing), you never hit the same brew temp twice in a row, this results in poor tasting espresso. In the espresso game a swing of only a degree or two is tasteable, so a 20 deg swing can render the shots undrinkable.

As you pointed out, the water entering the boiler will cool the water in the boiler but if the temp is on the bottom of the temp arc then you COOL MORE with the fill water, very poor results will follow.

The ONLY thing that will get rid of temp surfing on SBDU machines is the addition of a PID unit, with one, you are then able to rely on the brew temp of the water but with the click type thermostats, no way. Sorry, this is a time when "according to the mfg instructions" just isn't good enough.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,031
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4 x2, VDD...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Fri Dec 13, 2013, 8:20am
Subject: Re: why bother temp surfing, just listen to machine light?
 

calblacksmith Said:

The reason for temp surfing is to get a consistent temp. The click type thermostats installed on SBDU machines have up to a 20 deg F swing in temp so unless you take pains to always catch the temp swing in the same place(temp surfing), you never hit the same brew temp twice in a row....

As you pointed out, the water entering the boiler will cool the water in the boiler but if the temp is on the bottom of the temp arc then you COOL MORE with the fill water, very poor results will follow.

The ONLY thing that will get rid of temp surfing on SBDU machines is the addition of a PID unit, with one, you are then able to rely on the brew temp of the water but with the click type thermostats, no way. Sorry, this is a time when "according to the mfg instructions" just isn't good enough.

Posted December 13, 2013 link

and this is also why it's important to have a full boiler before you start brewing. The largest volume of hot water possible will give you the least cooling effect of the mixing incoming (cooler) water. Therefore, if steaming before brewing, it's best to make sure the boiler is full right after finishing the steaming. It'll allow the cooler water to fill the dead space left by removing steam and that will help bring the water temp in the boiler down to brew range. Thus, you get a larger body of hot water at the right temperature faster.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Coffee > Machines > why bother temp...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Cafe Solutions
Commercial sales and service, nationwide installation, equipment leasing options.
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.254142045975)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+