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Flaw with Kalita Wave Drippers
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Discussions > Coffee > Machines > Flaw with Kalita...  
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squaremile
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Posts: 83
Location: Portlandia
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Fri Nov 29, 2013, 7:20pm
Subject: Re: Flaw with Kalita Wave Drippers
 

This is becoming frustrating. The 155 is a different device and you already have the answer, the holes are smaller in the 185 porcelain, that's why it takes longer to drain. Case closed. If you want a longer brew time with that size grind, then keep using the 185. What else is there to figure out?
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TheSunInsideYou
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TheSunInsideYou
Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 206
Location: NJ and NYC
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900XL
Grinder: Laranzato HC-600, OE LIDO,...
Vac Pot: Yama 3
Drip: Hario V60, Chemex
Posted Fri Nov 29, 2013, 7:32pm
Subject: Re: Flaw with Kalita Wave Drippers
 

squaremile Said:

This is becoming frustrating. The 155 is a different device and you already have the answer, the holes are smaller in the 185 porcelain, that's why it takes longer to drain. Case closed. If you want a longer brew time with that size grind, then keep using the 185. What else is there to figure out?

Posted November 29, 2013 link

Oh shoot, I'm sorry; I thought we were on a forum made for coffee conversation and debate. I happen to find extraction time and the relationship it has to dosing extremely important and certainly something worth discussing.

-Dave-
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squaremile
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Posts: 83
Location: Portlandia
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Fri Nov 29, 2013, 9:29pm
Subject: Re: Flaw with Kalita Wave Drippers
 

I thought this thread was about why the Wave 155 drains faster than the 185 and how that is a "flaw". Extraction and dosing is definitely a worthwhile topic!
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jmm5351
Senior Member
jmm5351
Joined: 28 Nov 2013
Posts: 7
Location: US
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Fri Nov 29, 2013, 9:30pm
Subject: Re: Flaw with Kalita Wave Drippers
 

TheSunInsideYou Said:

Oh shoot, I'm sorry; I thought we were on a forum made for coffee conversation and debate. I happen to find extraction time and the relationship it has to dosing extremely important and certainly something worth discussing.

-Dave-

Posted November 29, 2013 link

Yeah, maybe that person feels left out of the discussion. But forget that person. On a serious note here.

TheSunInsideYou Said:

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I didn't say that making the coffee coarser increased the brewing time. I wasn't suggesting that coffee defies physics. I said that I coarsened the grind and AIMED for a longer brewing time. This was to compensate for the coarser grind. Also, the smaller kalita is smaller and steeper, and therefore makes the bed similar to the 185 in depth. It's not exactly the same, but the effects are similar. Let me liken this to a Chemex: With a 6-cup, you have exactly the same resistance as the 8-cup, because the only real resistance is the filter. But you would never be able to use 50g of coffee effectively in a 6-cup, whereas in an 8-cup, it's doable. The difference there is headspace for the water. But when you lower the dose, you would also shorten the extraction.

-Dave-

Posted November 29, 2013 link

I do agree with that yes. Sorry for what ever reason I took what you initially said a different way. But you clarified it and that makes sense here.

TheSunInsideYou Said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're suggesting that 1g and 100g of coffee should extract in the same time in your kalita? 20g in a kalita 155 should finish at 3:30 just as 35g should?

-Dave-

Posted November 29, 2013 link

And to answer this question. I would agree with you also and say no I am not suggesting that at all. You are going to the extremes and you do know it. 1 gram of coffee would be like a drop of water .... *Sarcastic* Also 1 gram of coffee would be the size of a pea in the 155 wave and not even fill the bottom or close to it. 100 grams of coffee would spill out everywhere of the 155. It barely holds 30 grams. The 185 size Wave won't accommodate 100 grams of coffee without spilling everywhere. Lets be realistic here about this. I of course mean within reason here. Just like in physics you can neglect drag for a lot things and other forces when calculating things. Here is the same thing. The difference in times is very small I would bargain to say that's because of how the Wave is designed. What I am suggesting is that the times of your brew on the 185 Wave should be around 3:00 to 3:30 times depending on your taste preference. I said this before too. You can find that information everywhere. That is the typical brew time for the 185 size Wave. I find that 3:30 brew time makes an amazing cup of coffee doing pulse pour method. Not sure what the 155 typical brew time is but I can say from experience it is around 2:50ish and the coffee was coming out weak tasting at the same grind and brew ratio. Obviously because the was faster and the steep time did was shorter.
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jmm5351
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jmm5351
Joined: 28 Nov 2013
Posts: 7
Location: US
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Fri Nov 29, 2013, 9:39pm
Subject: Re: Flaw with Kalita Wave Drippers
 

squaremile Said:

I thought this thread was about why the Wave 155 drains faster than the 185 and how that is a "flaw". Extraction and dosing is definitely a worthwhile topic!

Posted November 29, 2013 link

No I just wrote that as a title because its short and to the point and to me, my opinion, it is sort of a flaw. I don't understand why it is like that. The water flows way to fast through the device and made much weaker coffee at same grind and brew ratio that I use for the 185. It is just sort of strange to me I suppose.
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jmm5351
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jmm5351
Joined: 28 Nov 2013
Posts: 7
Location: US
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Fri Nov 29, 2013, 9:40pm
Subject: Re: Flaw with Kalita Wave Drippers
 

I was hoping someone who owned both the 155 and 185 would chime in so I could hear what they have to say. And see if they prefer one over the other.
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TheSunInsideYou
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TheSunInsideYou
Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 206
Location: NJ and NYC
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Breville BES900XL
Grinder: Laranzato HC-600, OE LIDO,...
Vac Pot: Yama 3
Drip: Hario V60, Chemex
Posted Fri Nov 29, 2013, 11:57pm
Subject: Re: Flaw with Kalita Wave Drippers
 

jmm5351 Said:

I find that 3:30 brew time makes an amazing cup of coffee doing pulse pour method. Not sure what the 155 typical brew time is but I can say from experience it is around 2:50ish and the coffee was coming out weak tasting at the same grind and brew ratio. Obviously because the was faster and the steep time did was shorter.

Posted November 29, 2013 link

I understand what you're saying about 3-3:30 brewing time. I also understand why a 2:50 extraction of the same coffee at the same grind would taste bleh. But the issue is that that only remains true if you keep all of the other parameters the same and just change your device. The device itself has an effect on your coffee; there is no doubting that. But the most important factor in this discussion is grind. 3:30 extraction time only remains perfect if the coffee is ground EXACTLY how is was ground the day that you felt it was perfect. The time isn't the golden ticket here; the dose and the grind are what make that time reasonable.

-Dave-
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MWJB
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Joined: 1 Jun 2013
Posts: 179
Location: UK
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: Rocky, Lido, Porlex, Hario...
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Posted Sat Nov 30, 2013, 4:30am
Subject: Re: Flaw with Kalita Wave Drippers
 

jmm5351 Said:

I was hoping someone who owned both the 155 and 185 would chime in so I could hear what they have to say. And see if they prefer one over the other.

Posted November 29, 2013 link

I think this relates to the differing materials & tooling used, rather than the 155 vs 185, the holes in my steel wave drippers are identical.

Time, of itself, is a poor indicator of extraction, go by yield/taste. If you're underextracting, grind finer for that brewer.
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jmm5351
Senior Member
jmm5351
Joined: 28 Nov 2013
Posts: 7
Location: US
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Sat Nov 30, 2013, 11:07am
Subject: Re: Flaw with Kalita Wave Drippers
 

TheSunInsideYou Said:

I understand what you're saying about 3-3:30 brewing time. I also understand why a 2:50 extraction of the same coffee at the same grind would taste bleh. But the issue is that that only remains true if you keep all of the other parameters the same and just change your device. The device itself has an effect on your coffee; there is no doubting that. But the most important factor in this discussion is grind. 3:30 extraction time only remains perfect if the coffee is ground EXACTLY how is was ground the day that you felt it was perfect. The time isn't the golden ticket here; the dose and the grind are what make that time reasonable.

-Dave-

Posted November 29, 2013 link

Yep I agree that the dose and the grind are the parameters making that my brewing time reasonable for my 185. Thanks


MWJB Said:

I think this relates to the differing materials & tooling used, rather than the 155 vs 185, the holes in my steel wave drippers are identical.

Time, of itself, is a poor indicator of extraction, go by yield/taste. If you're underextracting, grind finer for that brewer.

Posted November 30, 2013 link

I will have to go finer next time I tinker with my 155 glass. I am tempted to purchase a steel wave now to try them out. They look nice and if I drop it, they will still live on :D
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