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Discussions > Coffee > Machines > New kind of...  
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jpender
Senior Member
jpender
Joined: 11 Jul 2011
Posts: 694
Location: California
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: OE LIDO
Vac Pot: S/S Moka Pot
Drip: Aeropress
Posted Fri Sep 13, 2013, 5:40pm
Subject: Re: New kind of machine!
 

Bluntness? You basically called the guy a liar about what machines he owned and then made a suggestive reference about his IP address.
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godsantagonist
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 13
Location: fresno
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Tue Sep 17, 2013, 10:32am
Subject: Re: New kind of machine!
 

jpender Said:

Bluntness? You basically called the guy a liar about what machines he owned and then made a suggestive reference about his IP address.

Posted September 13, 2013 link

wow, is that a double entendre?!?  ;)
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JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,368
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Thu Sep 19, 2013, 1:53pm
Subject: Re: New kind of machine!
 

Well, just to lob in my own 2 . . .

CoffeeRoastersClub Said:

I cannot recall a time that I had good restaurant coffee.

Posted September 5, 2013 link

As a generalization, that's true of my experience as well.  I can think of no restaurant (in the States) where I've ever had a better-than-average tasting espresso, and most just flat-out sucks!  As far as brewed coffee is concerned, most everything I've had is equally poor.  The exceptions are the restaurants that use French press pots, brewed to order -- and even so, it's only a small fraction of those where the coffee is truly "fine" or better.

Note:  I am only referring to coffee/espresso served after lunch or dinner.  For some reason, coffee at breakfast seems better, though I suspect that's due to a) a relatively fast turnover from brew to service, and b) lowered expectations on my own behalf.

For that reason alone, when someone writes

abacus01 Said:

as far as the taste is concerned..beliieve it or not..the coffee brewed from this machine..is high end restaurant quality

Posted September 2, 2013 link

my "Time to be Skeptical" alarm goes off . . . loudly.  And then, to followed by

abacus01 Said:

I didnt mean just any restaurant coffee..i meant a high end restaurant like Peter Lugers (sic) for instance..there (sic) coffee is amazing...

Posted September 5, 2013 link

Peter Luger serves reasonable coffee, and after a meal there, I do want coffee . . . and I'll drink theirs.  But "amazing" is not a word that I would even come close to using, and so perhaps that says something about the comparisons being made in this entire thread.

But back to the original question:

MrMike Said:

Has anyone heard of brewing coffee with steam?

Posted July 28, 2013 link

There are any number of "steam toys" on the market.  Typically they make something the manufacturers of said machines would like to call "espresso," but isn't.  It more closely resembles a moka pot, but that isn't exactly right either.  All I know is that "steam toys" make really crappy coffee.

CoffeeRoastersClub Said:

It is our job as CoffeeGeeks to look hard at reviews, the people or companies that are doing the reviewing, and be critical and also point out potential flaws in the reviews.

Posted September 13, 2013 link

Absolutely!

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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scarrz
Senior Member


Joined: 29 Jul 2013
Posts: 11
Location: USA
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Thu Sep 19, 2013, 5:41pm
Subject: Re: New kind of machine!
 

This forum post has turned noninformative and very negative. Abacus posts his opinion and gets lambasted by a few folks who take a scalpel to every word.

Thousands of posts doesn't equate to expert for all things coffee. One might say you have way too much time on your hands.

Just my .02 cents.
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CoffeeRoastersClub
Senior Member
CoffeeRoastersClub
Joined: 6 Jul 2005
Posts: 4,454
Location: Connecticut
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vintage La Pavoni Lever...
Grinder: Breville Smartgrind,...
Vac Pot: Vintage Silex, Nicro...
Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster...
Roaster: javaPRO-CRC AIR Fluid Bed...
Posted Fri Sep 20, 2013, 8:14am
Subject: Re: New kind of machine!
 

scarrz Said:

This forum post has turned noninformative and very negative. Abacus posts his opinion and gets lambasted by a few folks who take a scalpel to every word.

Thousands of posts doesn't equate to expert for all things coffee. One might say you have way too much time on your hands.

Just my .02 cents.

Posted September 19, 2013 link

If the machine didn't play Mozart when warming up, or make ridiculous claims like extracting "a symphony of exquisite flavors" with its superheated magical steam wands, or produce gobs of "rich coffee CREMA" then maybe the noninformative and very negative posters on this thread would have been kept at bay.

Len

 
"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674

www.CoffeeRoastersClub.com     www.javaPRO-CRC.com     www.KaffeeFrisch.com
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barkingburro
Senior Member
barkingburro
Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 179
Location: Irvine, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Vac Pot: Trifecta MB, CafeSolo,...
Posted Fri Sep 20, 2013, 10:56am
Subject: Re: New kind of machine!
 

CoffeeRoastersClub Said:

If the machine didn't play Mozart when warming up, or make ridiculous claims like extracting "a symphony of exquisite flavors" with its superheated magical steam wands, or produce gobs of "rich coffee CREMA" then maybe the noninformative and very negative posters on this thread would have been kept at bay.

Len

Posted September 20, 2013 link

Yeah, imagine how the negative posters would have gotten their tidy whities in a wad if the machine displayed a silly sequence of blue lights or the manufacturer made ridiculous claims like "Full Cup" flavor with its magical "Air Infusion™ Technology" or had the arrogance to assert that its brewing quality is "beyond dispute".

Like Bunn and Technivorm do.

Then there's the obvious fixation the negativos have on the poster's experience with restaurant coffee, while conveniently ignoring much better qualified reviews that corroborate the poster's observations.  They obviously take it personally when the poster states his mind when dissing their favorite champions, like when he says the Technivorm brew was unremarkable in comparison, while... Oh, sorry, that was well-respected Sweet Maria's review on the Trifecta MB.

Now, even I started to call-out abacus01 in another thread after I found his comparisons to lack rigor and specificity, hence credibility.  But I know better than to throw the baby out with the bathwater.  I read the reviews, particularly the Kitchenboy review, which, far from being a puff piece, took issue with the product in several respects, while still finding favor overall.  I wrote my own conclusions earlier in this thread based on what I've read.

So by all means ignore the iCoffee for the wrong reasons, like your personal reaction to marketing BS.  Or your Good Old Boy reaction to inexperienced new posters.  And please, avoid researching the more serious reviewers because they is mos'ly tainted by association with the product.  And keep sipping your home-brewed Kool-Aid--man, it is tasty and refreshing!

 
- Michael
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CoffeeRoastersClub
Senior Member
CoffeeRoastersClub
Joined: 6 Jul 2005
Posts: 4,454
Location: Connecticut
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vintage La Pavoni Lever...
Grinder: Breville Smartgrind,...
Vac Pot: Vintage Silex, Nicro...
Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster...
Roaster: javaPRO-CRC AIR Fluid Bed...
Posted Fri Sep 20, 2013, 12:08pm
Subject: Re: New kind of machine!
 

barkingburro Said:

Yeah, imagine how the negative posters would have gotten their tidy whities in a wad if the machine displayed a silly sequence of blue lights or the manufacturer made ridiculous claims like "Full Cup" flavor with its magical "Air Infusion™ Technology" or had the arrogance to assert that its brewing quality is "beyond dispute".

Like Bunn and Technivorm do.

Posted September 20, 2013 link

You can't come to a specialty board like CG and not think that a new product like iCoffee is not going to be picked apart especially when wild claims like "rich coffee CREMA", steaming to extrude a "symphony of exquisite flavors", etc. are promoted.  

According to SCAA Certification requirements, the following drip brews brewing quality is beyond dispute:

   Technivorm Moccamaster
   Lance Larkin BE 112 Brew Express
   Bunn HG Home Brewer
   Bonavita 8 Cup Exceptional Brew Coffee Maker with glass or thermal carafe

Maybe some day the iCoffee will be able to achieve their excellence.

Len

 
"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674

www.CoffeeRoastersClub.com     www.javaPRO-CRC.com     www.KaffeeFrisch.com
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barkingburro
Senior Member
barkingburro
Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 179
Location: Irvine, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Vac Pot: Trifecta MB, CafeSolo,...
Posted Fri Sep 20, 2013, 12:16pm
Subject: Re: New kind of machine!
 

By all means, pick it apart.  But do so based on intelligence, not personal emotional reaction.  I should think that I have adequately made that point on several occasions.  You seem to not be getting the point.

 
- Michael
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barkingburro
Senior Member
barkingburro
Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 179
Location: Irvine, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Vac Pot: Trifecta MB, CafeSolo,...
Posted Fri Sep 20, 2013, 12:22pm
Subject: Re: New kind of machine!
 

CoffeeRoastersClub Said:

You can't come to a specialty board like CG and not think that a new product like iCoffee is not going to be picked apart especially when wild claims like "rich coffee CREMA", steaming to extrude a "symphony of exquisite flavors", etc. are promoted.  

According to SCAA Certification requirements, the following drip brews brewing quality is beyond dispute:

   Technivorm Moccamaster
   Lance Larkin BE 112 Brew Express
   Bunn HG Home Brewer
   Bonavita 8 Cup Exceptional Brew Coffee Maker with glass or thermal carafe

Maybe some day the iCoffee will be able to achieve their excellence.

Len

Posted September 20, 2013 link

No doubt the SCAA Certification should always take precedence over actual taste comparisons by humans, eh?

 
- Michael
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CoffeeRoastersClub
Senior Member
CoffeeRoastersClub
Joined: 6 Jul 2005
Posts: 4,454
Location: Connecticut
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vintage La Pavoni Lever...
Grinder: Breville Smartgrind,...
Vac Pot: Vintage Silex, Nicro...
Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster...
Roaster: javaPRO-CRC AIR Fluid Bed...
Posted Fri Sep 20, 2013, 12:35pm
Subject: Re: New kind of machine!
 

barkingburro Said:

No doubt the SCAA Certification should always take precedence over actual taste comparisons by humans, eh?

Posted September 20, 2013 link

I have never been to an SCAA Certification process to state with specificity whether or not humans do a taste test.  However I can state that their testing requirements are quite stringent:

SCAA's Minimum Certification Requirements for Coffee Brewers
http://www.scaa.org/?page=cert2

   Coffee Volume:
   The volume of the brew basket must be sized in proportion to the beverage receiver's maximum capacity as stipulated by the manufacturer.Minimum technical requirement is for brew basket capacity to accommodate the nominal weight of coffee (proportionate to 55 grams per liter) without overflowing from the basket due to the swelling of the coffee grounds during the brew cycle. This allowance should be about 50% of the bed depth of the coffee. Best results in uniformity of extraction are obtained with coffee bed depths between 2.5 and 5.0 cm.
   Brewing Time:
   The coffee brewer must be able to cycle the gross water volume through the coffee grounds within the prescribed amount of time. Minimum technical requirement is for the water contact time with the coffee grounds to be more than 2 minutes but less than 8 minutes for all brewers operating under standard temperature and pressure at the manufacturers stated design voltage. Under no circumstances will water contact times in excess of 8 minutes be acceptable in meeting the certification requirements.
   Brewing Temperature:
   The coffee brewer must be able to cycle the gross water volume through the coffee grounds within the prescribed temperature range.Minimum technical requirement is for the water temperature at the point the water contacts the coffee grounds to remain no lower than 92 degrees C and no higher than 96 degrees C during 90% of the brew cycle. Measurement of brewing temperatures will be made by using an RTD (Resistive Temperature Device) placed at the top and in the center of the bed of coffee in the brew basket.
   Beverage Preparation:
   The coffee brewer must be able to produce a beverage with the prescribed range of solubles concentration and solubles yield. Minimum technical requirement is for an Actual Net Beverage Strength between 1.15% to 1.35% resulting from an Actual Absolute Extraction between 18.0% to 22.0% from the nominal weight of coffee in the brew basket, as determined by the refractometer method. The grind of the coffee will be adjusted for the water contact time of the brewer in order to achieve these results wherever possible.
   Uniformity of Extraction:
   Brewers will receive a Quality/Performance Index Rating based on the average uniformity of extraction factor as determined by the "Agtron/SCAA Uniformity of Extraction Procedures" (1997) for the nominal weight of coffee at a medium roast color used for the maximum gross water volume capacity of the brewer as stated by the manufacturer. The rating number is calculated by comparing residual soluble solids in the outside, middle, and inside areas of the wet coffee grounds in the brew basket. The result is multiplied by 100 to convert the percentage to a whole number.

   The Index Rating is 0 - 100, with 100 indicating perfect uniformity of extraction. An average uniformity rating number of 60 would be considered "good," a rating number above 75 would be considered "excellent," and a rating number above 90 would be "outstanding." All ratings below 60 would be listed as "needs improvement."
   Beverage Clarity:
   Excessive sediment in the brewed coffee should be avoided. The amount of sediment present will be calculate based on the amount of undissolved solids remaining on a 0.9 micron Boro-Sillicate filter used in the dehydration analysis. Minimum technical standard is brewer to produce fewer than 75 milligrams per 100 milliliters of brewed coffee.
   Holding Temperature: The container that receives the coffee after brewing must accommodate the quantity of coffee for which the brewing equipment is designed at the gross water volume capacity designated by the manufacture and maintain the temperature of the brewed coffee at the correct holding temperature. Minimum technical requirement is for the beverage receiver to maintain the temperature of the coffee no lower than 80 degrees C and no higher than 85 degrees C during the first thirty (30) minutes of the holding time.


Testing Procedures:

   Coffee: Evaluations of minimum technical requirements in beverage preparation will be made using coffees in the medium roast color range (Agtron/SCAA #55 roast color tile). In addition beverage evaluations will also be made using coffees in the dart roast color range (Agtron/SCAA #35 roast color tile).
   Water: Fresh, cold water between 18 and 20 degrees Celsius (C), containing a baseline dissolved mineral content of 150 ppm (0.150%) with a tolerance of 20 ppm (+/- 0.20%), and a pH of 7.0 (+/- 0.5) will be used in all of the brew testing.
   Coffee to Water Ratios: Evaluations of minimum technical requirements in beverage preparation will be made using the nominal weight of coffee specified by the SCAA Coffee Brewing Control Chart (55 grams of coffee per liter of water) for the actual maximum gross water volume rating of the brewer, as specified by the manufacturer. In addition beverage evaluations will be made using any minimum gross water volume recommended by the manufacturer and also using the European coffee to water ratio standard of 65 grams per liter for both maximum and minimum grow water volumes.
   Water Supply: For plumbed-in units, the water pressure will be controlled by a pressure regulator to maintain the minimum pressure designated by the manufacturer.
   Uniformity of Performance: Minimum technical requirement evaluations will be based on the average value of those measurements taken during three (3) consecutive brew cycles.

========

Current SCAA Certified Home Brewers:

   Technivorm Moccamaster
   Lance Larkin BE 112 Brew Express
   Bunn HG Home Brewer
   Bonavita 8 Cup Exceptional Brew Coffee Maker with glass or thermal carafe

========

Len

 
"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674

www.CoffeeRoastersClub.com     www.javaPRO-CRC.com     www.KaffeeFrisch.com
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