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CoffeeRoastersClub
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Posted Wed Jun 26, 2013, 7:14pm
Subject: Re: Breville YouBrew v. Technivorm, BonaVita, or Behmor Brazen
 

coffeeguydenton Said:

That may be the case, but as a consumer comparing the two machines, it shouldn't impact one's decision since it can still make the same amount of coffee as the other machines at the recommended strength.

Posted June 26, 2013 link

What if the recommended strength (I take it that is indicated on the youbrew settings screen?) of the youbrew at 40 oz. was weak compared to SCAA certified models being compared with it?  Unless you can override the auto settings on the youbrew and set for a manual type of operation so you can get a stronger brew and still get 40 oz. then it could impact ones decision.

Len

 
"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674

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coffeeguydenton
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Posted Thu Jun 27, 2013, 8:01am
Subject: Re: Breville YouBrew v. Technivorm, BonaVita, or Behmor Brazen
 

CoffeeRoastersClub Said:

What if the recommended strength (I take it that is indicated on the youbrew settings screen?) of the youbrew at 40 oz. was weak compared to SCAA certified models being compared with it?  Unless you can override the auto settings on the youbrew and set for a manual type of operation so you can get a stronger brew and still get 40 oz. then it could impact ones decision.

Len

Posted June 26, 2013 link

I do not know if the ratio that is preset as the strongest setting is weak by SCAA standards.  That would be a different knock on the machine.  I was only addressing the complaint that the basket wouldn't fit enough grounds.  From all accounts that I have read, on the maximum setting it does make a strong enough cup.  Would be interesting to set it to max strength at 9 cups and then measure the weight of the grounds before it starts the brew cycle.
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CoffeeRoastersClub
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Espresso: Vintage La Pavoni Lever...
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Posted Thu Jun 27, 2013, 9:13am
Subject: Re: Breville YouBrew v. Technivorm, BonaVita, or Behmor Brazen
 

coffeeguydenton Said:

I do not know if the ratio that is preset as the strongest setting is weak by SCAA standards.  That would be a different knock on the machine.  I was only addressing the complaint that the basket wouldn't fit enough grounds.  From all accounts that I have read, on the maximum setting it does make a strong enough cup.  Would be interesting to set it to max strength at 9 cups and then measure the weight of the grounds before it starts the brew cycle.

Posted June 27, 2013 link

From what I understand about the machine, at its strongest setting it only makes 9 cups max which would not allow it a SCAA certification.

Len

 
"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674

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coffeeguydenton
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Posted Fri Jun 28, 2013, 4:28am
Subject: Re: Breville YouBrew v. Technivorm, BonaVita, or Behmor Brazen
 

CoffeeRoastersClub Said:

From what I understand about the machine, at its strongest setting it only makes 9 cups max which would not allow it a SCAA certification.

Len

Posted June 27, 2013 link

Who cares?  I was trying to compare the YouBrew to the other machines on the list.  If it makes nine 5 oz cups at the recommended strength, and the others make 8 5 oz cups, and they all taste good, then as a consumer, there is no reason not to buy the YouBrew based on that.  As a consumer, it doesn't matter whether the SCAA puts their stamp on a product or not if it makes as a good a pot of coffee.  Generally, the SCAA stamp would mean something.  But if their only reason not to endorse it is because the box says 12 cups, but it will only make 9 at the recommended strength, when the other products will only make 8 to begin with, it really doesn't matter to me as the consumer.
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CoffeeRoastersClub
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Espresso: Vintage La Pavoni Lever...
Grinder: Breville Smartgrind,...
Vac Pot: Vintage Silex, Nicro...
Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster...
Roaster: javaPRO-CRC AIR Fluid Bed...
Posted Fri Jun 28, 2013, 6:34am
Subject: Re: Breville YouBrew v. Technivorm, BonaVita, or Behmor Brazen
 

coffeeguydenton Said:

Who cares?  I was trying to compare the YouBrew to the other machines on the list.  If it makes nine 5 oz cups at the recommended strength, and the others make 8 5 oz cups, and they all taste good, then as a consumer, there is no reason not to buy the YouBrew based on that.  As a consumer, it doesn't matter whether the SCAA puts their stamp on a product or not if it makes as a good a pot of coffee.  Generally, the SCAA stamp would mean something.  But if their only reason not to endorse it is because the box says 12 cups, but it will only make 9 at the recommended strength, when the other products will only make 8 to begin with, it really doesn't matter to me as the consumer.

Posted June 28, 2013 link

If one had a choice between two machines that made a particular strength of coffee where one machine produced such strength and provided a full pot of it, and the other only 3/4 pot of it, there could be a "I definitely care" involved.  I for one drink a full pot of coffee a day (40 oz.) so chock me up as one who would care.  

Currently only 4 brewers meet the SCAA requirements of an, in their words, "exemplary" home brewer.  Apparently the Youbrew has failed to meet one or more of the SCAA requirements:

http://www.scaa.org/?page=cert2

About the Program

The SCAA recognizes home brewers that meet our longstanding rigorous technical requirements. These requirements are based on decades of industry knowledge and research by the Coffee Brewing Center. All SCAA Certified Home Brewers have met these requirements, which are based generally on proper water temperature, brewing time, and ability to brew within the SCAA Golden Cup recommendations. If a brewer passes all of the tests in the below procedure, as conducted by the SCAA, that brewer will be recognized by as an exemplary home brewer and join the short list of SCAA Certified Home Brewers.

Current SCAA Certified Home Brewers:

   Technivorm Moccamaster
   Lance Larkin BE 112 Brew Express
   Bunn HG Home Brewer
   Bonavita 8 Cup Exceptional Brew Coffee Maker with glass or thermal carafe

SCAA's Minimum Certification Requirements for Coffee Brewers

   Coffee Volume:
   The volume of the brew basket must be sized in proportion to the beverage receiver's maximum capacity as stipulated by the manufacturer.Minimum technical requirement is for brew basket capacity to accommodate the nominal weight of coffee (proportionate to 55 grams per liter) without overflowing from the basket due to the swelling of the coffee grounds during the brew cycle. This allowance should be about 50% of the bed depth of the coffee. Best results in uniformity of extraction are obtained with coffee bed depths between 2.5 and 5.0 cm.
   Brewing Time:
   The coffee brewer must be able to cycle the gross water volume through the coffee grounds within the prescribed amount of time. Minimum technical requirement is for the water contact time with the coffee grounds to be more than 2 minutes but less than 8 minutes for all brewers operating under standard temperature and pressure at the manufacturers stated design voltage. Under no circumstances will water contact times in excess of 8 minutes be acceptable in meeting the certification requirements.
   Brewing Temperature:
   The coffee brewer must be able to cycle the gross water volume through the coffee grounds within the prescribed temperature range.Minimum technical requirement is for the water temperature at the point the water contacts the coffee grounds to remain no lower than 92 degrees C and no higher than 96 degrees C during 90% of the brew cycle. Measurement of brewing temperatures will be made by using an RTD (Resistive Temperature Device) placed at the top and in the center of the bed of coffee in the brew basket.
   Beverage Preparation:
   The coffee brewer must be able to produce a beverage with the prescribed range of solubles concentration and solubles yield. Minimum technical requirement is for an Actual Net Beverage Strength between 1.15% to 1.35% resulting from an Actual Absolute Extraction between 18.0% to 22.0% from the nominal weight of coffee in the brew basket, as determined by the refractometer method. The grind of the coffee will be adjusted for the water contact time of the brewer in order to achieve these results wherever possible.
   Uniformity of Extraction:
   Brewers will receive a Quality/Performance Index Rating based on the average uniformity of extraction factor as determined by the "Agtron/SCAA Uniformity of Extraction Procedures" (1997) for the nominal weight of coffee at a medium roast color used for the maximum gross water volume capacity of the brewer as stated by the manufacturer. The rating number is calculated by comparing residual soluble solids in the outside, middle, and inside areas of the wet coffee grounds in the brew basket. The result is multiplied by 100 to convert the percentage to a whole number.

   The Index Rating is 0 - 100, with 100 indicating perfect uniformity of extraction. An average uniformity rating number of 60 would be considered "good," a rating number above 75 would be considered "excellent," and a rating number above 90 would be "outstanding." All ratings below 60 would be listed as "needs improvement."
   Beverage Clarity:
   Excessive sediment in the brewed coffee should be avoided. The amount of sediment present will be calculate based on the amount of undissolved solids remaining on a 0.9 micron Boro-Sillicate filter used in the dehydration analysis. Minimum technical standard is brewer to produce fewer than 75 milligrams per 100 milliliters of brewed coffee.
   Holding Temperature: The container that receives the coffee after brewing must accommodate the quantity of coffee for which the brewing equipment is designed at the gross water volume capacity designated by the manufacture and maintain the temperature of the brewed coffee at the correct holding temperature. Minimum technical requirement is for the beverage receiver to maintain the temperature of the coffee no lower than 80 degrees C and no higher than 85 degrees C during the first thirty (30) minutes of the holding time.


Testing Procedures:

   Coffee: Evaluations of minimum technical requirements in beverage preparation will be made using coffees in the medium roast color range (Agtron/SCAA #55 roast color tile). In addition beverage evaluations will also be made using coffees in the dart roast color range (Agtron/SCAA #35 roast color tile).
   Water: Fresh, cold water between 18 and 20 degrees Celsius (C), containing a baseline dissolved mineral content of 150 ppm (0.150%) with a tolerance of 20 ppm (+/- 0.20%), and a pH of 7.0 (+/- 0.5) will be used in all of the brew testing.
   Coffee to Water Ratios: Evaluations of minimum technical requirements in beverage preparation will be made using the nominal weight of coffee specified by the SCAA Coffee Brewing Control Chart (55 grams of coffee per liter of water) for the actual maximum gross water volume rating of the brewer, as specified by the manufacturer. In addition beverage evaluations will be made using any minimum gross water volume recommended by the manufacturer and also using the European coffee to water ratio standard of 65 grams per liter for both maximum and minimum grow water volumes.
   Water Supply: For plumbed-in units, the water pressure will be controlled by a pressure regulator to maintain the minimum pressure designated by the manufacturer.
   Uniformity of Performance: Minimum technical requirement evaluations will be based on the average value of those measurements taken during three (3) consecutive brew cycles.



Len

 
"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674

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coffeeguydenton
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Posted Fri Jun 28, 2013, 9:05am
Subject: Re: Breville YouBrew v. Technivorm, BonaVita, or Behmor Brazen
 

CoffeeRoastersClub Said:

If one had a choice between two machines that made a particular strength of coffee where one machine produced such strength and provided a full pot of it, and the other only 3/4 pot of it, there could be a "I definitely care" involved.  I for one drink a full pot of coffee a day (40 oz.) so chock me up as one who would care.  

Len

Posted June 28, 2013 link

You're not paying attention.  You say that you drink 40 oz of coffee a day. But as I have already pointed out, the Breville will make 45 oz of coffee at full strength.  It will make 60 at lower strength. So again, why does it matter if the carafe is actually full if it makes the same amount of coffee, or actually more in this case?
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CoffeeRoastersClub
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CoffeeRoastersClub
Joined: 6 Jul 2005
Posts: 4,587
Location: Connecticut
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vintage La Pavoni Lever...
Grinder: Breville Smartgrind,...
Vac Pot: Vintage Silex, Nicro...
Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster...
Roaster: javaPRO-CRC AIR Fluid Bed...
Posted Fri Jun 28, 2013, 9:11am
Subject: Re: Breville YouBrew v. Technivorm, BonaVita, or Behmor Brazen
 

coffeeguydenton Said:

You're not paying attention.  You say that you drink 40 oz of coffee a day. But as I have already pointed out, the Breville will make 45 oz of coffee at full strength.  It will make 60 at lower strength. So again, why does it matter if the carafe is actually full if it makes the same amount of coffee, or actually more in this case?

Posted June 28, 2013 link

I was under the assumption that it made 40 oz reg strength and 3/4 of that at its stronger setting.   It may now pass that particular requirement of mine, however the youbrew still wouldn't get my purchase vote.   It still fails SCAA certification, due at least to the temperature requirement.  I'm not saying that the Youbrew is crap, just not up to SCAA requirements that only the Bonavita, Lance, Bunn and Technivorm to date have achieved.  And it certainly is not anywhere near the quality of a Techivorm, that is pretty much undebatable.  

Still list me as someone who cares.

Len

 
"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674

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coffeeguydenton
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Location: Denton, TX
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Drip: Chemex
Posted Fri Jun 28, 2013, 5:14pm
Subject: Re: Breville YouBrew v. Technivorm, BonaVita, or Behmor Brazen
 

CoffeeRoastersClub Said:

I was under the assumption that it made 40 oz reg strength and 3/4 of that at its stronger setting.   It may now pass that particular requirement of mine, however the youbrew still wouldn't get my purchase vote.   It still fails SCAA certification, due at least to the temperature requirement.  I'm not saying that the Youbrew is crap, just not up to SCAA requirements that only the Bonavita, Lance, Bunn and Technivorm to date have achieved.  And it certainly is not anywhere near the quality of a Techivorm, that is pretty much undebatable.  

Still list me as someone who cares.

Len

Posted June 28, 2013 link

Fair enough.  I don't have the data on temperature, but have heard some complaints about that, and if that is the case, I agree with you that it doesn't pass muster.
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EvanOz85
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Posted Sun Oct 20, 2013, 10:50am
Subject: Re: Breville YouBrew v. Technivorm, BonaVita, or Behmor Brazen
 

Posting removed, obvious site troll uncovered.

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