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Discussions > Coffee > Machines > Behmor Brazen...  
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VKirby
Senior Member


Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Posts: 99
Location: World Wide
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Tue Jun 18, 2013, 8:57am
Subject: Re: Behmor Brazen users weigh in
 

Prof Said:

woodscomp wrote:  "... Behmor does not know coffee brewers, they know marketing, they know features that would spark interest. All the rest is fluff..." and "With the new machine I also received the "Five Key Factors to Great Coffee" Anyone looking for a good laugh should read this.  I would like to add a sixth key factor, do not buy a Brazen. These guys are hacks, they do not belong making coffee makers. "

We all know this is your opinion based on your experience(s), and perhaps written at time(s) of frustration.

But the statement is false.  Joe B does know his stuff.  QC concerns at the Chinese factory are being addressed.  

The forum does try to keep a tone of civility, even when complaints are being aired.

Posted June 17, 2013 link

Thanks for the update Prof. Just kind of hate to see it posted, because now the naysayers might take it as an admission of these "issues" & poor QC etc.

And just an OT quibble.  If we're asserting his statement was one of opinion, then it's not true/false, though we know what you meant, Prof.  I'm with you there & on toning down the negativity.  

: (
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PandaMatic
Senior Member


Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 40
Location: Detroit, MI
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Hario MSS-1B Mini, Baratza...
Drip: Behmor Brazen
Posted Wed Jun 19, 2013, 4:27pm
Subject: Re: Behmor Brazen users weigh in
 

Sounds like a few of you have some insider insights into Behmor's manufacturing process. On one hand, it's reassuring to hear the Behmor is working on QC issues, but on the other, it leaves potential first generation purchasers with a decision whether or not they want to flip the proverbial coin and deal with such issues. This situation would be substantially mitigated if Behmor's customer service was agreed to be top notch, but opinions are mixed in this regard as well.

After a week of ownership, I am happy with my purchase so far. Besides the plastic odor, which has lessen considerably (although still slightly noticeable), I have not had any major issues - my tank drains fully, the temperature of the water is within +/- 2 degrees, and water is distributed evenly across the holes on the showerhead. The potential pain points have been the near impossibility to pour from the carafe without dribbling and residual water dripping from the showerhead after a brew. As far as I'm concerned, these are non-issues as they do not hamper my enjoyment of the coffee produced from the Brazen. Obviously I'd like a perfect product without such hassles, and only time will tell whether these issues grow into more serious ones, but as long as the Brazen is brewing a great cup of coffee with minimal fuss, my expectations have been met.

And just to say it, the Brazen does make a great cup of coffee. Being able to dial in the temperature, and to a lesser degree the pre-soak time, has been instrumental in getting great flavor out of the beans I buy from my local roaster. I even think the Brazen makes a better cup than I can achieve via a pour over as the temperature of the water is much more consistent throughout the brew.
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joc3721
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 24
Location: CO - USA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Vertrano
Grinder: Vario, Breville
Vac Pot: Hario, Kalita
Drip: KMB, chemex & Technivorm
Roaster: gene cafe
Posted Sat Jun 22, 2013, 6:02am
Subject: Re: Behmor Brazen users weigh in
 

I'm about to throw in the towel on my Brazen and go back to my Technivorm.  Love the design and concept behind it and the Company has been good to deal with (I've had one carafe and one brewer replaced).  But, as noted elsewhere in this thread and on the bigger Brazen thread, the carafe sucks for lots of reasons.  The bigger problem I'm having is the brewer leaves about an inch of water in the boiler that does not pass through during the brew cycle.  I've been through all the water fixes and am using soft enough water in a clean machine. It's not me.  I could probably send it back and get another one, but I'm not confident there won't be more problems and it's becoming a hassle to own and use this machine.  My Technivorm is more than 10 years old and will not die, still works as it did on day one.  Lot to be said for that.
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The_Coffee_Guy
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The_Coffee_Guy
Joined: 5 Jan 2009
Posts: 133
Location: Toronto
Expertise: I live coffee

Grinder: Baratza Encore
Drip: Behmor BraZen Brew System,...
Posted Sat Jun 22, 2013, 6:34am
Subject: Re: Behmor Brazen users weigh in
 

Has turning it upside down at the sink and spraying the water intake hole for 30 seconds been tried? I do that now every once in awhile when I see a 600ml brew taking over 4 minutes and it fixes the issue and drains again better reducing it back down to 3:15 from end of pre-soak to final beep. Micro size debris (dust grounds etc) most likely get in there over time.
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coffeeguydenton
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Jun 2013
Posts: 89
Location: Denton, TX
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Drip: Chemex
Posted Sat Jun 22, 2013, 8:53am
Subject: Re: Behmor Brazen users weigh in
 

I find it interesting as I read through the forums and reviews on this and other brewers how dramatically people's experiences vary.  Even with the Technivorm and the Bonavita I have come across plenty of reviewers with problems.  The ones that interest me are the "This is my third machine and they've all had the same problem" reviews, when so many others have only had to buy one machine and never experienced that problem.  It's either really bad luck or, more likely, a user problem.

The Brazen has its issues, no doubt, but its also clear that when used as directed it makes one heck of a good cup of coffee.  My close friend has one and uses it several times a day.  He uses filtered water as instructed, and has never had an issue except with the dripping from the carafe.  This is apparently an issue that they are working to address.

In conclusion, it seems clear that you need a good filter to avoid the mineral build up problems.  The question is is the machine is worth having to buy a better filter.  I installed an RO filter under my sink for about 150.  Given that the Brazen is 100 less than the Technivorm and adds a lot more control, this seems worth it.
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joc3721
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 24
Location: CO - USA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Vertrano
Grinder: Vario, Breville
Vac Pot: Hario, Kalita
Drip: KMB, chemex & Technivorm
Roaster: gene cafe
Posted Sat Jun 22, 2013, 11:58am
Subject: Re: Behmor Brazen users weigh in
 

I put the Brazen into storage and dusted off the old Technivorm and pressed it back into service. 10+ years of lots of use and it works perfectly.  I did try the upside-down trick to spray off gunk in the filter in the Brazen.  It did work for a period of time, then back to the same problem (water left in boiler).  It seems others have had this problem too, not to mention the many carafe issues. I  can't help but think we early adopters are paying the  price for wanting  such a flexible and high performing machine early on.  I'm sure over time Behmor will address these issues and the machine will improve, they seem like a good company and they have a great idea. My experience, however, has led me to conclude this machine is  not ready for prime time.
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__________
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Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 883
Location: .
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Awaiting spare parts ;o(
Grinder: None
Vac Pot: None
Drip: None
Roaster: None
Posted Sat Jun 22, 2013, 4:32pm
Subject: Re: Behmor Brazen users weigh in
 

I feel a fraud for even commenting in this thread as I've never even seen a Brazen never mind used or owned one.  However, that doesn't stop a lot of other people  making posts, so it's as valid of all of those I guess.

I'm sure that any teething problems with the brewer will be sorted out.  For a domestic drip brewer it is very sophisticated in its approach, and highly regarded by most users because of that and the results it produces.   Getting it all right isn't easy when you are bringing to the market something novel and without others having beaten the path before you and found out all the real life bugs that need to be ironed out. There lies the difference between it and the other two commonly compared brewers, the Technivorms and the Bonavita.

Both of those are very simple devices. They heat a column of water which is forced upwards, then down through the coffee bed.  That's it.  No sophisticated temperature control or much else. They use simple physical principles which, provided they are designed in properly, will just - well - work.  There is so little to go wrong in the brewing process, and major abuse apart, they shouldn't be too sensitive to incorrect handling.

There are hundreds if not thousands of models designed on this principle.  You might ask, so why are most of them c**p ? probably because of simple cost cutting, which either isn't there in these 2, or has been carefully designed around.  Technivorms haven't really changed much in 40 years apart from some additional features, which may or may not add to their usefulness. The Bonavita has also been around for years in Europe in its original Melitta guise, and many thousands have been sold.  In addition, it is only a more recent version of the massive number of earlier Melitta machines sent to market. By now any major design shortcomings will have been worked through.

Coffeguydenton - where have you found all these "This is my third machine and they've all had the same problem" reviews relating to these ?

Statement of bias - I have 2 Technivorms, which are my "go to" brewers, for reliabilty, ease of use and cleaning. They both look and work like new.  I have a Melitta Thermo Steel (the original of the Bonavita) and an older Melitta Excellence Grand (an earlier 1.5l version of the melitta with glass jug.  Very useful when a larger brew is needed).

I'd probably buy a Brazen too at some time in the future if ever 230v versions are released.  I don't need one but like new toys.
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CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,356
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Sat Jun 22, 2013, 5:46pm
Subject: Re: Behmor Brazen users weigh in
 

coffeeguydenton Said:

I find it interesting as I read through the forums and reviews on this and other brewers how dramatically people's experiences vary.  Even with the Technivorm and the Bonavita I have come across plenty of reviewers with problems.  The ones that interest me are the "This is my third machine and they've all had the same problem" reviews, when so many others have only had to buy one machine and never experienced that problem.  It's either really bad luck or, more likely, a user problem..

Posted June 22, 2013 link

I was actually just wondering about this, like look at the Breville Dual Boiler (applies to the Brazen and others as well). Somehow some people are on their 3rd (4th?) replaced machine, when others are still on their 1st no problem. Heck i know some owners, one who owns two (one for office used non stop) and no trouble since they came out. I could understand getting a faulty unit, but 3+ times in a row? Either user is doing something wrong or they have the absolutley worst luck in the world lol. Be like going to buy a car, whether a Honda or Porsche, and getting 4 lemon vehicles in a row of the same model... chances of that happening? lol... must happen though ha
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VKirby
Senior Member


Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Posts: 99
Location: World Wide
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Sun Jun 23, 2013, 11:33am
Subject: Re: Behmor Brazen users weigh in
 

__________ Said:

I feel a fraud for even commenting in this thread as I've never even seen a Brazen never mind used or owned one.  However, that doesn't stop a lot of other people  making posts, so it's as valid of all of those I guess.

I'm sure that any teething problems with the brewer will be sorted out.  For a domestic drip brewer it is very sophisticated in its approach, and highly regarded by most users because of that and the results it produces.   Getting it all right isn't easy when you are bringing to the market something novel and without others having beaten the path before you and found out all the real life bugs that need to be ironed out. There lies the difference between it and the other two commonly compared brewers, the Technivorms and the Bonavita.

Both of those are very simple devices. They heat a column of water which is forced upwards, then down through the coffee bed.  That's it.  No sophisticated temperature control or much else. They use simple physical principles which, provided they are designed in properly, will just - well - work.  There is so little to go wrong in the brewing process, and major abuse apart, they shouldn't be too sensitive to incorrect handling.

There are hundreds if not thousands of models designed on this principle.  You might ask, so why are most of them c**p ? probably because of simple cost cutting, which either isn't there in these 2, or has been carefully designed around.  Technivorms haven't really changed much in 40 years apart from some additional features, which may or may not add to their usefulness. The Bonavita has also been around for years in Europe in its original Melitta guise, and many thousands have been sold.  In addition, it is only a more recent version of the massive number of earlier Melitta machines sent to market. By now any major design shortcomings will have been worked through.

Coffeguydenton - where have you found all these "This is my third machine and they've all had the same problem" reviews relating to these ?

Statement of bias - I have 2 Technivorms, which are my "go to" brewers, for reliabilty, ease of use and cleaning. They both look and work like new.  I have a Melitta Thermo Steel (the original of the Bonavita) and an older Melitta Excellence Grand (an earlier 1.5l version of the melitta with glass jug.  Very useful when a larger brew is needed).

I'd probably buy a Brazen too at some time in the future if ever 230v versions are released.  I don't need one but like new toys.

Posted June 22, 2013 link


I won't speak for them or assume they accidentally posted these criticisms of such reviews in the wrong thread or anything, but I do see some similar stories in the original Brazen thread they could be referring to.

"Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)"
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coffeeguydenton
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Jun 2013
Posts: 89
Location: Denton, TX
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Drip: Chemex
Posted Sun Jun 23, 2013, 12:29pm
Subject: Re: Behmor Brazen users weigh in
 

__________ Said:

Coffeguydenton - where have you found all these "This is my third machine and they've all had the same problem" reviews relating to the Brazen?

Posted June 22, 2013 link

I actually meant that as a general statement about all automatic drip brewers, and not exclusive to this forum.  I found several of those type reviews regarding the Technivorm, even, though not nearly as many. However, I remember reading several here and on retailer websites about the Brazen specifically.
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