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Discussions > Coffee > Machines > Bloom Part of...  
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TurtlesAllTheWayDown
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Joined: 6 Mar 2012
Posts: 9
Location: Dallas
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Silvia w/ PID
Grinder: Preciso
Vac Pot: Hario
Drip: Chemex, aeropress
Posted Mon Jun 10, 2013, 11:30am
Subject: Bloom Part of Overall Extraction Time? (Chemex)
 

The title says it all: is bloom time considered to be part of overall extraction time, specifically as it relates to chemex brewing?

I know taste should be the ultimate guide, but I'm looking for a general framework.  Right now, I'm aiming for an overall extraction time of 3 1/2 to 4 minutes including a 30 second bloom.
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tglodjo
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tglodjo
Joined: 16 Oct 2012
Posts: 209
Location: Jackson, TN
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: Baratza Vario, Virtuoso
Drip: Wave, V60, Chemex, Clever
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Jun 10, 2013, 12:33pm
Subject: Re: Bloom Part of Overall Extraction Time? (Chemex)
 

Of course it's subjective, but I think most would generally say yes, bloom time is considered part of the overall extraction time.
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TurtlesAllTheWayDown
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Location: Dallas
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Espresso: Silvia w/ PID
Grinder: Preciso
Vac Pot: Hario
Drip: Chemex, aeropress
Posted Mon Jun 10, 2013, 1:10pm
Subject: Re: Bloom Part of Overall Extraction Time? (Chemex)
 

Very true.  I guess it just seems like something that may be less subjective, something along the lines of brew temps or extraction times (all still subjective, but with generally accepted "ideal" ranges backed by some sort of science).

I currently include bloom in overall extraction time, but I thought perhaps bloom was akin to pre-infusion in espresso, which isn't considered in shot time.  Then, I started reading Scott Rao's "Professional Barista's Handbook", and he mentions beginning the espresso timer when the spro begins to leave the portafilter.  If applied to pour over (and I'm not necessarily sure it should be), it would further suggest that bloom shouldn't be part of extraction time.  This cast additional doubt over my current methodology, so I wanted a second opinion.  3rd, 4th, ...n'th opinions also welcome.
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squaremile
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Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Posts: 87
Location: Portlandia
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Mon Jun 10, 2013, 1:46pm
Subject: Re: Bloom Part of Overall Extraction Time? (Chemex)
 

Might just be a terminology issue. All the recipes you see for pour over are going to count the infusion time as part of the overall brewing time, unless specified. Another place to get some ideas on this would be some of the Brewer's Cup performances.
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johnnyb3
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Location: Anaheim, CA
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Grinder: Baratza Maestro Plus refurb
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos
Drip: Chemex
Posted Mon Jun 10, 2013, 2:25pm
Subject: Re: Bloom Part of Overall Extraction Time? (Chemex)
 

Garsh, I would have said just the opposite. I am used to discussion on brew time starting the clock after the bloom. That's useful, I think, because the bloom time can vary depending on lots of variables, most notably how recently the beans were roasted.
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tglodjo
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tglodjo
Joined: 16 Oct 2012
Posts: 209
Location: Jackson, TN
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: Baratza Vario, Virtuoso
Drip: Wave, V60, Chemex, Clever
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Jun 10, 2013, 2:47pm
Subject: Re: Bloom Part of Overall Extraction Time? (Chemex)
 

TurtlesAllTheWayDown Said:

I thought perhaps bloom was akin to pre-infusion in espresso, which isn't considered in shot time.  Then, I started reading Scott Rao's "Professional Barista's Handbook", and he mentions beginning the espresso timer when the spro begins to leave the portafilter.

Posted June 10, 2013 link

I've always considered preinfusion as part of the shot time. I think many on this forum practice both methods for espresso. That one is certainly more subjective than the initial question. I would assume it has a much greater impact on taste with the short time for espresso than it does with a larger volume and longer pour over brew.
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TurtlesAllTheWayDown
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Joined: 6 Mar 2012
Posts: 9
Location: Dallas
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Silvia w/ PID
Grinder: Preciso
Vac Pot: Hario
Drip: Chemex, aeropress
Posted Mon Jun 10, 2013, 7:52pm
Subject: Re: Bloom Part of Overall Extraction Time? (Chemex)
 

johnnyb3 Said:

Garsh, I would have said just the opposite. I am used to discussion on brew time starting the clock after the bloom. That's useful, I think, because the bloom time can vary depending on lots of variables, most notably how recently the beans were roasted.

Posted June 10, 2013 link

From my armchair, I kind of agree.  It seems like it would be counted  separately from extraction time.  I guess I'll just have to try out the different methods and see which tastes best.

I'll post the results, assuming I have palette to differentiate between the two.
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TurtlesAllTheWayDown
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Mar 2012
Posts: 9
Location: Dallas
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Silvia w/ PID
Grinder: Preciso
Vac Pot: Hario
Drip: Chemex, aeropress
Posted Mon Jun 10, 2013, 8:09pm
Subject: Re: Bloom Part of Overall Extraction Time? (Chemex)
 

tglodjo Said:

I've always considered preinfusion as part of the shot time. I think many on this forum practice both methods for espresso. That one is certainly more subjective than the initial question. I would assume it has a much greater impact on taste with the short time for espresso than it does with a larger volume and longer pour over brew.

Posted June 10, 2013 link

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply one was gospel.  But rather, if pre-infusion was used, it would be noted as "28 second extraction with an 8 second pre-infusion", or "36 second extraction" and in that instance we could assume there was a pre-infusion, based on the long extraction time.

What I meant to convey was that we would know whether there was a pre-infusion based on extraction time, and therefore, "36 second extraction" isn't subjective in the same way bloom is being considered currently.  I'm inclined to think that bloom either is or isn't part of extraction time.
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MWJB
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Joined: 1 Jun 2013
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Location: UK
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: Rocky, Lido, Porlex, Hario...
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Posted Tue Jun 11, 2013, 4:36am
Subject: Re: Bloom Part of Overall Extraction Time? (Chemex)
 

TurtlesAllTheWayDown Said:

The title says it all: is bloom time considered to be part of overall extraction time, specifically as it relates to chemex brewing?

I know taste should be the ultimate guide, but I'm looking for a general framework.  Right now, I'm aiming for an overall extraction time of 3 1/2 to 4 minutes including a 30 second bloom.

Posted June 10, 2013 link

My feeling is "it depends"...if following a recipe that outlines a total brew time, then aim to match the described bloom time. However, 30seconds is probably best looked at as a minimum and not really part of the extraction per se. Many folk suggest blooming with water twice the weight of grinds as this is theoretically similar to the amount of water the grinds will absorb...ideally you should get nothing/next to nothing out. With this little amount of water you're not going to achieve a significant level of extraction relying on gravity, no matter how long you leave it (within reason).

With the Clever Dripper I have bloomed coarse grinds for up to 10minutes, level of extraction (with regards to achieving a cup of coffee) is still dependent on the brew water that follows.

Obviously if working with one kettle full, the longer you leave the bloom then the cooler your brew water & Chemex brewer becomes, but there's nothing to stop you blooming then boiling up some new brew water.
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Netphilosopher
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Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 1,602
Location: USA
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Wed Jun 12, 2013, 9:09am
Subject: .
 

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