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Discussions > Coffee > Machines > Behmor Brazen...  
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BeerCan
Senior Member


Joined: 8 Jun 2010
Posts: 37
Location: Tampa Florida
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Tue Jun 4, 2013, 12:37pm
Subject: Re: Behmor Brazen users weigh in
 

PandaMatic Said:

To summarize the sentiment in this thread, I made a quick spreadsheet of those recommending and not recommending the Brazen. I also tried to get a sense of credibility by looking at the distribution of join date and number of posts. (OK, so now you've probably realized I'm not just a Coffee Greek, I'm also a true geek. The Actuary in me is never satisfied with any decision unless copious over-analysis was conducted even if the sample size is small.)

In the end, 9 members recommended the Brazen - 2 did not recommend the Brazen. Those recommending the Brazen were longer tenure posters with an average join date of 2007 and around 600 posts. Those not recommending the Brazen were new-comers to the forum. (Obviously this is not scientific, but it just helps to give a sense for how this discussion shook out.)

Posted June 2, 2013 link

I'm sorry but I find this logic extremely flawed.  You give posters credibility based on their join date and their number of posts?  Discount the dissenters because they are newer, yet have well known and pretty much agreed on problems.  I really like my Brazen, but its issues are real.  (feel free to discount my thoughts due to my low post count and later join date)
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PandaMatic
Senior Member


Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 40
Location: Detroit, MI
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Hario MSS-1B Mini, Baratza...
Drip: Behmor Brazen
Posted Tue Jun 4, 2013, 6:36pm
Subject: Re: Behmor Brazen users weigh in
 

No need to be sorry. My goal was not to add credit to or discredit anyone's experience - more of an attempt to get a sense of the distribution of responses. As brazenly unscientific as the methodology was, it serves as an interesting observation, and not one that any conclusions should be drawn from.

In the end, I made my decision based on the unique feature set of the brewer, balanced against whether or not I could live with the issues. For me, it was worth it; for others, it may not be. Either way, this thread has been a valuable discussion of user experiences to guide those looking to weigh the decision for themselves.

That said, my Brazen is on its way. Can't wait to post an update!
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VKirby
Senior Member


Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Posts: 99
Location: World Wide
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Wed Jun 5, 2013, 7:58am
Subject: Re: Behmor Brazen users weigh in
 

PandaMatic Said:

As brazenly unscientific as the methodology was  

Posted June 4, 2013 link

I see what you did there.  Congrats on the brazen!


PandaMatic Said:

My goal was not to add credit to or discredit anyone's experience

Posted June 4, 2013 link

I also tried to get a sense of credibility by looking at the distribution of join date and number of posts.  

LOL! But I think I am going to start using your method for evaluating others' product reviews etc. from now on. Well done.
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woodscomp
Senior Member


Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 14
Location: Knoxville
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Wed Jun 12, 2013, 3:53pm
Subject: Re: Behmor Brazen users weigh in
 

Nine days since my last post and my replacement Brazen showed up this afternoon. Here is my update.

After having quite a lengthy (sparring) email conversation with some guy named Alchemy John about the in's and out's of the Brazen, I concluded the issue with my particular Brazen is the plunger that stops the water flow from the valve which has a rubber type of gasket on the end of it. The gasket has come apart.

I ran there recommended 4Tbsp of citric acid to 2C of water through the Brazen 4 times in as little as 5 days. Upon doing this little specks of black started floating in the reservoir. We both agreed that it was from the plunger. Alchemy John is insistent that the gasket is capable of handling the citric acid mixture. I am not. We chef's have a saying about things like that. "Proofs in the pudding".

While I was waiting for the replacement to show up I went ahead and ordered the Bonavita. All I will say about that, is I should have gotten it first. It is fast, it is hot, it makes a GREAT cup of Joe. My wife can use it, and does. Plus I ordered it, and it showed up the next day with "free super saver shipping". Good thing too because my Brazen went from bad to worse.

Onto the replacement, unpacked, set it up. Poured water into it........drum roll please. Leaks like a sieve right through the valve and onto the base. No screen in the replacement either. Just sent an email to there tech support asking which one they would like me to send back.

With the new machine I also received the "Five Key Factors to Great Coffee" Anyone looking for a good laugh should read this.  I would like to add a sixth key factor, do not buy a Brazen. These guys are hacks, they do not belong making coffee makers. Even Alchemy John admitted to me in an email the TDS recommendation is not true. TDS does not equal scale. I told him they desperately need to train there technical help because they are putting out bad information.  

According to the 5 Keys, .05% of Americans will be able to enjoy the benefits of the Brazen.

My conclusion and Alchemy John can deny this all he wants, is that the gasket can not take the beating it receives from the citric acid cleaner.  I have been using citric acid to clean food service equipment for years, and I know that gaskets, china, painted surfaces, aluminum and even brass will all suffer over time to over exposure from it. It is the best method to descale, however not knowing what was in the valve I went ahead and used it sparingly. At a rate of one teaspoon to two cups of water a week. That is a heck of a lot less than Brazen's recommended level.

Take it for it's worth, for anyone that has and loves there Brazen I hope it lasts and performs the way you expect it to. For anyone else who is on the fence about putting out the money for one of these machines I would seriously read through the 5 Key Factors to Great Coffee before you make a decision.

My favorite line of the whole addendum is. "~85% of all Tap Water in the USA is TOO HARD and will lead to BREWER FAILURE"
That's a great excuse if your brewers are failing, does not excuse the fact they are failing though.

Put that in your spreadsheet.  Hard numbers right from the manufacture.  Someday's I wish I went to law school instead of culinary school.
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Atredeis
Senior Member


Joined: 31 May 2013
Posts: 6
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Virtuoso
Drip: BraZen, Cuisinart, Bonavita
Roaster: Hottop
Posted Wed Jun 12, 2013, 4:40pm
Subject: Re: Behmor Brazen users weigh in
 

Which Bonavita did you get? After my email match with Behmor and their 5 key factors, I am considering getting something else  and selling the BraZen before it breaks again.

So far I am considering Technivorm and Bunn. Haven't looked at Bonavita yet.

For everyone else, yes I did read the Gort thread. In fact, following that thread last fall is what convinced me to order a BraZen the day it was released. And yes, I've followed it since.
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woodscomp
Senior Member


Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 14
Location: Knoxville
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Wed Jun 12, 2013, 6:33pm
Subject: Re: Behmor Brazen users weigh in
 

I opted for the glass carafe version for a couple of reasons.

  1. It was cheaper in price.
  2. There are lots of reports of the glass in the thermal carafes breaking for not much reason.
  3. If i make a pot i move it to a stanley and theres no confusion that its empty (it's a wife thing)

The bonavita is as close to a pour over that i have seen without it being a pour over. My other choice was to go with a commercial bunn or curtis. Not enough counter space for that. And for the 2 pots a day that do get made was just too much money to justify.
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VKirby
Senior Member


Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Posts: 99
Location: World Wide
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Wed Jun 12, 2013, 6:41pm
Subject: Re: Behmor Brazen users weigh in
 

Can we get the five keys?
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CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,375
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Wed Jun 12, 2013, 8:52pm
Subject: Re: Behmor Brazen users weigh in
 

Interesting to read, personally I think the Bonavita can't be beat for the $. I haven't used the Brazen but I couldn't tell a difference between the Bonavita and Technovorm and Youbrew. It's really a bargain for how well it performs and the excellent brew it makes.
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woodscomp
Senior Member


Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 14
Location: Knoxville
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Wed Jun 12, 2013, 9:32pm
Subject: Re: Behmor Brazen users weigh in
 

Sure here they are, straight from the addendum.

1) Water: 98+% of your coffee is water - If your water tastes bad, or is tainted by chemicals, so will your coffee.
Tap Water contains chemicals such as Chloramine & Chlorine, and can contain arsenic, lead and more. We do not recommend it for brewing coffee for how it can taint coffee/clogs/ destroys ALL coffee equipment in time with hardened lime/ calcium sediment.

http://water.epa.gov/drink/contaminents/upload/mcl-2.pdf *

Water from a "water softener" should be avoided as the salts can and do inhibit full extraction of the coffee's true character.**

We Recommend:
Chlorine free water with a hardness of less than 50ppm.
Reverse Osmosis systems which leaves a little of mineral in the water.
Zerowater purifiers or purified bottled water***).

  • ~85% of all Tap Water in the USA today is TOO HARD and will lead to BREWER FAILURE. To understand your TDS reading visit : www.zerowater.com . Their resin filters are under review by Behmor Inc. as they are one of the only portable filters that addresses contaminants in hard water which leads to scaling.

** Water softened by means of a salt exchanger is still high in minerals, can adversely affect the flavor of your coffee and is not recommended for this reason. Resin softened water, such as used in ZeroWater is the preferred method to reduce the hardness of water to be used or brewing.

*** Not all (very few actually) bottled waters are soft. Many still contain minerals that clog all brewers. Just because it is bottled, does NOT mean it's good for brewing.

2) Quality Brew Equipment: Water temperature and water dispersion over the grounds for even extraction are integral to great coffee. The BraZen brew system has been designed to meet the SCAA. ECCB, and SCAE criteria in those areas.

3) Freshness of Roast: All coffee should be date coded (date of roasting) and ideally less than 10 days old when it arrives. Home roasting coffee is the way to control this. www.behmor.com/behmor~1600.php

4) Quality of the Bean: Always buy from reputable suppliers, and / or roasters who date code their coffee and stand behind the quality. Having your coffee pre-ground should be avoided as it loses key character traits within hours of being ground.

5) Quality of the grind: There are many types of grinders from inexpensive helicopter flat blade styles to high end burr grinders. The more even and consistent your grind the better your coffee will taste as the water will extract the character/ flavors more evenly.
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EricBNC
Senior Member
EricBNC
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 1,867
Location: North Carolina
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: QM Silvano, LP Stradivarius,...
Grinder: K30, Major, Preciso, Pharos,...
Vac Pot: Sunbeam C30, Bodum Santos...
Drip: Bonavita BV-1800,...
Roaster: Behmor, Melitta, Fresh...
Posted Wed Jun 12, 2013, 9:48pm
Subject: Re: Behmor Brazen users weigh in
 

woodscomp Said:

I opted for the glass carafe version for a couple of reasons.

It was cheaper in price.
There are lots of reports of the glass in the thermal carafes breaking for not much reason.
If i make a pot i move it to a stanley and theres no confusion that its empty (it's a wife thing)

The bonavita is as close to a pour over that i have seen without it being a pour over. My other choice was to go with a commercial bunn or curtis. Not enough counter space for that. And for the 2 pots a day that do get made was just too much money to justify.

Posted June 12, 2013 link

I have the original Bonavita glass carafe brewer - the one shown at trade shows with water from these various parts of the country and also demonstrated by prospective dealers before any shipped to the US in retail packaging. It came to me well used based on the shower screen appearance (which I did not clean nor descale) and has been used by me ever since. It is going on 2 years now brewing for me and has not seen any descaler but still functions like the newer ones I have seen since and had the opportunity to try out.

 
I chew coffee beans with my teeth while gargling with 195 F water to enjoy coffee. What is this "coffee brewing" device you speak of?
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