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ATTN: Refractometer users to help with gold cup research
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Netphilosopher
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Joined: 14 Jan 2011
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Posted Fri Apr 19, 2013, 3:54am
Subject: Re: ATTN: Refractometer users to help with gold cup research
 

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jpender
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jpender
Joined: 11 Jul 2011
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Grinder: OE LIDO
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Posted Fri Apr 19, 2013, 10:11am
Subject: Re: ATTN: Refractometer users to help with gold cup research
 

Netphilosopher Said:

No, I'm not saying that, I was exaggerating for effect.  In fact, I'm not sure Lockhart actually evaporated anything... there's precious little data on sample sizes, person trials and samplers, etc.

On something that's say 100g, you need something that can measure to the hundredth or thousands of a gram.  The process wasn't fast, either.

Posted April 19, 2013 link

Single pan sub-milligram scales were available in the 1950s. Didn't Lockhart work at some big university? With that type of instrument you could evaporate 5g liquid samples and get the same resolution as a hand held coffee refractometer.

It's weird that it isn't easy to figure out exactly what he did. Maybe he was using hydrometers. But would the speed of measurement really have been that big of an impediment to his research? They had gas chromatography to study volatiles back then. Last time I checked on Amazon you still couldn't get a hand held GC for $20.
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Netphilosopher
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Posted Fri Apr 19, 2013, 11:28am
Subject: Re: ATTN: Refractometer users to help with gold cup research
 

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MWJB
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Posted Sat Jun 1, 2013, 1:49pm
Subject: Re: ATTN: Refractometer users to help with gold cup research
 

Netphilosopher Said:

I have also found many exceptions to the established "rules" on extraction and strength.  The huge range in consumption strength was one eye opener.  The other was that we routinely make assumptions on our "depth of extraction", and have mis-applied the drip Coffee Brewing Control chart to other methods where the math doesn't really work (like infusion), and we rarely pay attention to shifts in dilution for methods that have some (like the water at the bottom of a siphon).

With drip, I've had still very decent cups with a technical extraction of 17% or so... so the rules aren't hard and fast.  That's why there's no right answers with coffee.

Posted April 18, 2013 link

Hi Netphilosopher,

You refer to the brewing control chart as "drip" oriented. Is there any reference that states that this is the case? I thought that the brewing control chart applied to home brewing generally - drip, percolation, French press, vac pot etc...?

I've been mulling over the data David made public and it seems that clearly defined patterns are difficult to identify.
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squaremile
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Location: Portlandia
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Posted Sun Jun 2, 2013, 9:26am
Subject: Re: ATTN: Refractometer users to help with gold cup research
 

He will probably give a longer response, but last year Vince F. demonstrated in his NBC2012 talk that immersion methods (french press) and percolation methods (pour over) should be analyzed by different formulas. The brew control chart is a good guide for finding the zone that is appealing to people, but the way you would plot your specific cup within that chart is different based on the method. Doing a search through these forums will yield some of those threads for sure.
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MWJB
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Grinder: Rocky, Lido, Porlex, Hario...
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Posted Sun Jun 2, 2013, 10:34am
Subject: Re: ATTN: Refractometer users to help with gold cup research
 

squaremile Said:

He will probably give a longer response, but last year Vince F. demonstrated in his NBC2012 talk that immersion methods (french press) and percolation methods (pour over) should be analyzed by different formulas. The brew control chart is a good guide for finding the zone that is appealing to people, but the way you would plot your specific cup within that chart is different based on the method. Doing a search through these forums will yield some of those threads for sure.

Posted June 2, 2013 link

Thanks Squaremile,

I did watch the NBC talk, nearer the time, but it's been pulled now. I think if David' Phase 2 results show anything it is that coffee preference exists somewhat outside the brew chart ideal box (granted, just because people like it, might not make it "ideal").

My original point was though, that the brew chart does not seem to have been originally created specifically with pourovers, or any other specific brewer in mind?
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Netphilosopher
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Joined: 14 Jan 2011
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Location: USA
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Sun Jun 2, 2013, 5:47pm
Subject: Re: ATTN: Refractometer users to help with gold cup research
 

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