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jpender
Senior Member
jpender
Joined: 11 Jul 2011
Posts: 627
Location: California
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: OE LIDO
Vac Pot: S/S Moka Pot
Drip: Aeropress
Posted Mon Apr 22, 2013, 9:28am
Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
 

Netphilosopher Said:

So, before we start claiming that 25% extraction is acceptable, perhaps we should be a bit more accurate on the coffee and water measurements.  In my mind, if you're using volume to talk about extraction or dissolution, then I cannot in good conscience accept these as valid observations, they are only anecdotal to me.  Unless you know your coffee density (and if you know that why not just measure coffee mass?) and the height/diameter ratio of your liquid measurement device is 10:1 or you're using mass for brew water, you really can't talk about extraction or dissolution in anything other than in general terms.

Posted April 22, 2013 link

13 or 14 grams of coffee, "about" 8 fluid ounces of brew, an unknown amount of liquid trapped in the grounds, and a strength of 1.25% could easily mean anything between 21% and 26% extraction.

Netphilosopher Said:

If you measure this cup at 1.25% strength (and we can now measure this very accurately)

Posted April 22, 2013 link

But not if Alan was determining he had a Gold Cup brew with his PAL-1. It has too much uncertainty to really say what the extraction is. In that case those numbers could mean anything between 17% and 28% extraction.

Who here really worries about efficiency that much?
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Netphilosopher
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 1,602
Location: USA
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Mon Apr 22, 2013, 10:34am
Subject: ...
 

...
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jpender
Senior Member
jpender
Joined: 11 Jul 2011
Posts: 627
Location: California
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: OE LIDO
Vac Pot: S/S Moka Pot
Drip: Aeropress
Posted Mon Apr 22, 2013, 5:22pm
Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
 

Netphilosopher Said:

Um... it's not that I 'worry' about it, but it takes about an hour from setup to teardown/cleanup to roast a lb of coffee.  It's the difference of a couple-3 of cups of coffee per lb.

Posted April 22, 2013 link

I see. It's mostly about time rather than money.

Netphilosopher Said:

To make double strength (2.25%) but diluted coffee in the AeroPress (to 1.25% strength) only produces 5.8 liters of coffee from 450g of roasted coffee.

Posted April 22, 2013 link

I like small cups of stronger coffee and so I brew to about 2.1% strength in the Aeropress and don't dilute. I estimate I use ~12% more coffee beans in an Aeropress versus what I use in a moka pot or drip cone. But the tradeoffs of ease of use, forgiveness in technique, and speed make it worth the cost increment to me.

I could experiment with rinsing out what's trapped in the puck. By pulling the plunger after pressing, adding a small amount of additional water, and then pressing a second time I think I could halve the loss, assuming doing so doesn't affect the taste.
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HorsemanSix
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Apr 2013
Posts: 7
Location: California
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Mon Apr 22, 2013, 6:08pm
Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
 

So does anyone have a great guide to use for this? I've tried the one from stumptown (which I find to taste a little burnt almost) and the one from Aeropress which is a bit too weak.
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rasqual
Senior Member
rasqual
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 1,066
Location: Chicago area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: *$ Barista, non-pressurized
Grinder: SMP
Vac Pot: Yama, Aeropress
Drip: Porcelain Melitta 103, Hario
Roaster: "ring roaster", mod popper
Posted Mon Apr 22, 2013, 7:12pm
Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
 

CaptainCowPie Said:

I have to definitely agree with this. Alan's responses have always been extremely helpful to the discussions at hand without pushing his product. He is the epitome of great customer relations. I could only wish for such interaction with other products that I own. I realize this is your site Mark and you have to keep a happy relationship with your advertisers, but I hope you can see the value that this brings to the discussion.

If I felt that Alan was starting to promote instead of offering help as he has, I would be less inclined to follow this post as I have for the last seven years (has it really been that long, I had to look it up).

Vince

Posted April 22, 2013 link

How about this? When a thread bears the frakkin' name of a product, the manufacturer's participation is automatically ruled non-advertising. I mean, seriously. Think about it for a minute.

If one wishes to be really consistent, one shouldn't be allowed to name a thread with the product's name. That is, after all, a form of advertisement. I'm not being sarcastic -- it IS.

The line is obviously when the manufacturer is involved. But to some extent, involvement in a thread bearing their product's name should be a free-for-all. First of all, if what they say in-thread is true about their product, it's useful information. If it's not, they're going to have literate users jumping down their throats. And to some extent, I can't imagine how a manufacturer's participation in such a thread would compete for advertising dollars. The manufacturer has already sold to the people participating in the thread. No? Well then, the chatter in the thread by the device's enthusiasts sells the darned thing to any thread visitors.

Personally, I wonder how effective advertising is at "geek" sites. True geeks tend to know what they're looking for, or seek out chatter. Or, if we're I.T. geeks, we use ad blockers and don't see the darned ads anyway. In my case, it's superfluous to use blockers because I'm blind to ads anyway. I think I'm weird that way. I utterly tune them out when they're visual elements.

But I digress.

Mark's site, he can do as he wishes. I'm a guest. But I seriously think if a thread bears a product's name . . . geez. A manufacturer will be up against critics if the product sucks -- so let the manufacturer "advertise" however he wishes. He'll be preaching to a mutinous choir in such a case. And if his product's great, then any "advertising" he'd be doing would be superfluous -- visitors to the thread would see the product's fans swooning left and right, and a manufacturer adding "hey, buy my great product" would add nothing of import to such user testimony.
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rasqual
Senior Member
rasqual
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 1,066
Location: Chicago area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: *$ Barista, non-pressurized
Grinder: SMP
Vac Pot: Yama, Aeropress
Drip: Porcelain Melitta 103, Hario
Roaster: "ring roaster", mod popper
Posted Mon Apr 22, 2013, 7:35pm
Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
 

HorsemanSix Said:

So does anyone have a great guide to use for this?

Posted April 22, 2013 link

Asking that in this thread? That's like showing up at Chicago's O'Hare airport and asking if there are any airplanes about.    ;-)
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jpender
Senior Member
jpender
Joined: 11 Jul 2011
Posts: 627
Location: California
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: OE LIDO
Vac Pot: S/S Moka Pot
Drip: Aeropress
Posted Mon Apr 22, 2013, 7:54pm
Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
 

I'm glad Alan is posting here.

And rasqual too.
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paulbel
Senior Member
paulbel
Joined: 26 Apr 2008
Posts: 144
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: aeropress
Grinder: conical burr (cuisinart)
Drip: sometimes
Posted Mon Apr 22, 2013, 8:04pm
Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
 

I mean, really.

Alan takes a whole lot of guff from a whole lot of opinionated geeks in this thread and anyone lurking here wondering whether to buy an aeropress has seen the inventor used as a punching bag. Yet Alan is unfailingly courteous, (if resolutely stubborn). And he's contributing to the conversation.  He's an asset to CoffeeGeek, in my opinion (but then, yes, it's not my site. It's Mark's)

But I've been around the rest of the site. This is the one thread I keep track of. Why? It's not just because of Alan, because he was gone for a while. But it has a lot to do with his participation (and, come to think of it, when he was gone, this thread was pretty quiet)
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AlanAdler
Senior Member
AlanAdler
Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 699
Location: Palo Alto, Calif
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: AeroPress
Grinder: Baratza - Virtuoso
Roaster: Fresh Roast SR-500
Posted Mon Apr 22, 2013, 8:44pm
Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
 

Hi All,

My pressings were with one heaped scoop (13-14g) and 175F water to about 2 or 2.5 on the chamber scale (about 115g).  Brix of the pressed concentrate was in the 3 to 3.6 range.  I only measure by weight - never by volume, not even water.  When I said that I get 8 ounces of 1.25% TDS (1.5 Brix), that's after dilution.  Here's a formula for computing how much 1.25% diluted brew your concentrate will make:

  Diluted wt = (concentrate wt) * (concentrate strength) / 1.25

I think that if Netphilosopher is having trouble reaching 25% extraction, it's likely due to one or both of the following factors:

  1.  My grind is finer than his

  2.  My beans have more sugar than his.  Brix is extremely sensitive to sugar content.  That has long made me suspicious of Brix as a measure of strength.  It always seemed insensitive to the source of the beans.  But lately I'm beginning to notice a sensitivity to beans.  

For example I consistently get 24 to 25% with my home roasted Guatemala beans, which make a very sweet cup.  But recently I tried some blends from a Northwest artisan roaster.  I brewed exactly the same but got 22 to 23% extraction.  Both roasts are full city.  I suspect that my beans have more sugar which caused higher Brix readings and higher (apparent) extraction.

Of course we needn't obsess over the exact math.  Better to just view the numbers as an approximation.

Best,

Alan
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AlanAdler
Senior Member
AlanAdler
Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 699
Location: Palo Alto, Calif
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: AeroPress
Grinder: Baratza - Virtuoso
Roaster: Fresh Roast SR-500
Posted Mon Apr 22, 2013, 9:09pm
Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
 

jpender Said:

..an unknown amount of liquid trapped in the grounds...

Posted April 22, 2013 link

The amount of brew trapped in the grounds is known:

 trapped brew is approximately equal to: input water wt - brew wt

For the AeroPress, trapped brew is 1x to 1.1x coffee wt

For drip, trapped brew is approx 2x coffee wt.

Best,

Alan
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