In most things in life, I'm really easy going. But when something seems simple but ends up having more under the surface, I tend to run it to ground. It only takes about 2500 cups of coffee, a couple hundred pounds of beans, and a few years of your life...
LOL
CoffeeGuy123 Said:
...I will try your advice you mentioned. I can tell you right now I am doing a few things wrong, biggest is probably the water temp. I just pull it off the stove from a roaring boil straight into the press....
High temperature - that's where the bitterness is coming from. From my experience, it only takes about 10 seconds of exposure to boiling water to get tinges of bitterness even from coarse grounds. Fine grounds give this up quickly. Some people think of this as "scalding" the coffee, because too-hot water is a common issue.
Personally, I think it's probably more analogous to tannins if you use too-hot water for tea. It isn't tannins exactly - coffee has very few true "tannins", so I think of them as heavy lipids (almost like wax) that carry some bitter taste molecules (probably sourced from roasting) that have a melting point right around 206°F.
There's a secondary thing going on - a class of compounds called Chlorogenic Acids decompose with heat. Chlorogenic Acid (C16H18O9) is part of coffee (it exists in green and roasted coffee), and by itself doesn't exhibit clinical evidence of having significant taste (but some people can perceive it as slightly bitter). In fact, the form of CGA in Arabica is being researched as potentially a mild sweet enhancer (meaning it changes the perception of sweetness - it isn't "sweet" by itself). Seems contradictory, but so goes things like taste.
However, in the presence of heat and water, CGA decomposes, and some of the byproducts of decomposition of CGA do have taste - and they taste bitter and astringent, but they also contribute to the perception of body. Quinnic Acid (C7H12O6) is the chief culprit here - the longer the time and the hotter the water, the more of this stuff is created. Caffeic Acid (the most common formula is C9H8O4) is the sibling compound, and some people also perceive this to be "bitter" at concentrations present in hot coffee that has undergone CGA decomposition.
Interesting stuff - but it points to not using "just off rolling boil" water (probably between 209 and 210°F depending on your altitude and the local baro pressure).
CoffeeGuy123 Said:
...However I think my problem is coming from the fines of the grind. Even though I have sifted the grounds I am still getting the same amount of sludge at the bottom of the cup. And when I say sludge I mean SLUDGE!
The sludge isn't causing your bitterness, but it is a clue on ways to improve your technique.
Using cooler water will give you time to allow the fines to settle out. As the larger particles waterlog and sink, they'll contact and catch other fines on the way down, and bring them to the bottom of the press. In a way, the larger waterlogging particles act as a clarifier. This will reduce the sludge that ends up in the cup. The longer you can let the brew slurry remain undisturbed, the less fines you'll end up with in the cup.
French Press/Press Pot does require patience. That's why the 4 minute contact time - try really hard to get the grounds saturated and bloomed, and then put the screen in and let it sit.
If your coffee is really fresh, you can also do a cold-bloom. The way you do this is:
-put your coffee into the press (say you are using 55g of coffee) -bring your water up to a boil -get about 60ml (a quarter cup) of non-heated water (like from the tap) -take your water off boil and let it sit -pour your quarter cup of cold water into the coffee in the press, and mix it up in the bottom of the press. The result will be very pasty and thick. This will, however, allow much of the bloom to be released and starts to prep the coffee for the hot water. The colder water also cushions the contact of the hot water. While you're doing this, your boiling water is coming down to a more appropriate temperature - AND you're already getting some of the fines to settle down toward the bottom. -After 1 minute, your boiled water should be close to the right temperature, go ahead and fairly quickly, pour in your hot water and start timing. Stir with whatever you use for just a few seconds (a chopstick is most common) but what you'll find is much of the coffee is already well-wetted. -Then, insert your screen until just a little smidgen of coffee is above the screen. This pushes the floating grounds in contact with the brew water. If you glance at your timer, stirring and inserting the screen should only take about 15 seconds.
Now... you wait. 4 minutes. Don't touch it - lust let it brew.
When 4 minutes is up, slowly press and serve.
Even with a crappy grinder (many of the store grinders are not well maintained) this will improve the sludge situation. The sludge situation is different from the bitterness/taste situation.
You can sometimes get with a local coffee roaster/shoppe (there should be plenty in WA) and they can grind for you. Or even a Starbucks if you catch them when they're not busy will grind to French Press on their Ditting (the most common Starbucks shop grinder). Even these will have fines in a French Press situation, so don't expect these to be miracles. As you've found out, you get fine particles even if you sieve. These are particles that are smaller than the actual cell structure of the bean, and as such are clumped and stuck together by lipids and proteins. Mechanical dry means of separation don't get the stuff clinging to the larger particles - but hot water DOES. LOL
Think of when you put your finger into a container of cocoa powder - then just try and shake all that powder off dry. Then add just a bit of water and wipe that finger with a towel - the towel comes off dirty, no matter how much shaking you did to get the cocoa powder off. Same thing with fines and large 1.2mm particles of coffee, just on a smaller scale. Use a dark roast coffee, and the issue gets worse (because of the presence of more oils on the surface of the bean).
Good luck!
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
Posted Fri Mar 1, 2013, 8:32am Subject: Re: Science Behind The Press
Mike, the above advice is undoubtedly good, but I wouldn't rule out the grinder just yet as a contributing factor. Even if it's not throwing too many fines, it could be dirty (also possibly contaminated by flavored coffee residue), effectively tainting your coffee with compounds that can cause bitterness. Have you considered getting a grinder of your own?
Posted Fri Mar 1, 2013, 12:06pm Subject: Re: Science Behind The Press
jbviau Said:
Mike, the above advice is undoubtedly good, but I wouldn't rule out the grinder just yet as a contributing factor. Even if it's not throwing too many fines, it could be dirty (also possibly contaminated by flavored coffee residue), effectively tainting your coffee with compounds that can contribute to bitterness. Have you considered getting a grinder of your own?
I'm sure the grinder could be a contributing factor. Since the OP doesn't have their own grinder, I assumed that spending a hecto-$ on a decent grinder is potentially out of scale.
Everyone jumps immediately onto a grinder as the source of issues - but even with perfectly ground coffee you can fk up a cup in 60 seconds.
So, when someone is getting into coffee, I start with the no-cost suggestions first.
-Cost to ask someone at a coffee house to give you a Ditting French Press (setting #9) grind: $0 -Cost to use lower temperature water and adjust the technique to reduce cup sludge: $0 -Cost to address bitterness (and get some clarifying agent action) by trying crushed eggshells: $0
How much does a good French Press capable grinder cost? Answer: How much do you think you should spend? Multiply this by 3.225. ROFLOL.
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
Xie xie to the magic of Pimsleur, wo hui shuo yidian putonghua... LOL
It was just one of the last lessons... something that stuck (most of which doesn't).
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
Hmm. With the Pimsleur lessons, you don't get the benefit of seeing pinyin spelled. I'm guessing that's something like "can you succeed" or "are you successful"?
<shrug>
Sorry. I just remember the catchy things. LOL
xie xie nimen de re qing de zhao dai (thanks for your warm welcome)
gong gong qi che (bus. just sounds interesting)
wo shuo da bu hao (I don't speak well) LOL
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
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