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Coffee: Machines and Brewing Methods
Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)

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MJW
Senior Member

Joined: 25 Jul 2012
Posts: 74
Location: Silicon Valley
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sat Jan 12, 2013, 3:34pm Subject: Descaling Procedure

Has anyone with water retention or flow rate issues, descaled the machine successfully and solved the problem? What procedure did you use? My machine started acting up a few days ago, and all my efforts to descale have failed. Actually now the valve is completely clogged, no flow at all. All my problems started when I descaled the machine.

The_Coffee_Guy
Senior Member

Joined: 5 Jan 2009
Posts: 107
Location: Toronto
Expertise: I live coffee

Grinder: Baratza Encore
Drip: Behmor BraZen Brew System,...

Posted Sat Jan 12, 2013, 11:13pm Subject: Re: Descaling Procedure

I have the same issue. It is not completely clogged but seems to have some debris after descaling where the mesh filter is in the reservoir. For 600ml I do have some water left, for a full pot significantly more. I understand you cannot get at the mesh that you can see in the hole where the water goes. I am concerned that you cannot get at that part to clean it but will try to see what I can do. I emailed Behmor and received a set of instructions which seems quite lengthy to see where the problem is. Maybe someone can shed some light on getting at the area below the mesh filter in the reservoir

tahoejoe
Senior Member

Joined: 9 Sep 2003
Posts: 557
Location: San Diego/ Incline Village Nv.
Expertise: I live coffee

Grinder: Solis Maestro
Drip: Behmor Brazen Brew System
Roaster: Behmor 1600

Posted Sun Jan 13, 2013, 9:03am Subject: Re: Descaling Procedure

MJW- what we surmise is either the scale flaked versus dissolved or the descaler wasn't fully dissolved. what product were you using so we can offer other advice? Same for you Adam

REMINDER: Never leave the roaster unattended when in use !! And remember to use our Rosetta Stone tip PART V PARAGRAPH 3.. it works !!! www.behmor.com Twitter: www.twitter.com/behmor Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Behmor-Inc/214061212036763#!

The_Coffee_Guy
Senior Member

Joined: 5 Jan 2009
Posts: 107
Location: Toronto
Expertise: I live coffee

Grinder: Baratza Encore
Drip: Behmor BraZen Brew System,...

Posted Sun Jan 13, 2013, 10:26am Subject: Re: Descaling Procedure

Hi Joe, I diluted consumer grade citric acid at a ratio of 28g per litre

pgde
Senior Member

Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 18
Location: Tucson, AZ
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: None
Grinder: Kitchenaid KPCG100
Vac Pot: None
Drip: Behmor Brazen
Roaster: Behmor 1600

Posted Sun Jan 13, 2013, 11:14am Subject: More Questions

Hi Joe: Two quick questions: What is the risk of putting the Carafe in the dishwasher? I was thinking perhaps the top rack. I realize the instructions say not to, what is the reason? I can put other stainless steel items in our dishwasher without a problem. If I can't put it in the dishwasher, can I use Tabz to clean it? Stay warm! P.

tahoejoe
Senior Member

Posted Sun Jan 13, 2013, 12:04pm Subject: Re: More Questions

pgde Said: Hi Joe: Two quick questions: What is the risk of putting the Carafe in the dishwasher? I was thinking perhaps the top rack. I realize the instructions say not to, what is the reason? I can put other stainless steel items in our dishwasher without a problem. If I can't put it in the dishwasher, can I use Tabz to clean it? Stay warm! P. Posted January 13, 2013 link The reason no dishwasher.. there is a gasket between the top portion (black/ handle) and the main body (stainless steel) that acts as a seal between the two to prevent leakage.. Dishwashers can effect (ruin) the seal The factory recommends only soap and water, but will ask about Tabz tonight as I'm in communication with them every night. Adam.. thanks- your data has been sent to our resident chemist and techno guru for his feedback. It could be the amount was too low. One other question- did you heat the mixture you created of water/ citric acid? Or run it through cold on manual? More data is better. Mike.. As strange as this may sound don't do anything to the system so we can get it back for analysis. The odd occurances, (in your case a first) often can't be replicated in a lab so we can learn from this system.. In other words we want the system- contact us (support@behmor.com)and we'll arrange a swap. Thanks for everyone's patience but as mentioned despite all our testing in various/ random homes across the US, labs in Asia and homes in Australia we are learning about what can occur in a widespread/ different group of environments due to being in so many homes now. So far it's the tap water which is high in mineral content that is or so early analysis shows to be the culprit. I apologize for the inconveniences caused but will recommend where possible only use a conditioned water and not straight/ hard tap water as it plays hell on all coffee equipment, plumbing, water heaters etc.

REMINDER: Never leave the roaster unattended when in use !! And remember to use our Rosetta Stone tip PART V PARAGRAPH 3.. it works !!! www.behmor.com Twitter: www.twitter.com/behmor Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Behmor-Inc/214061212036763#!

The_Coffee_Guy
Senior Member

Joined: 5 Jan 2009
Posts: 107
Location: Toronto
Expertise: I live coffee

Grinder: Baratza Encore
Drip: Behmor BraZen Brew System,...

Posted Sun Jan 13, 2013, 12:11pm Subject: Re: More Questions

Joe, used hot water to dilute it and then mixed to 1.2L of tap water, let it sit, then drained through. I noticed no difference between before and after except for the reservoir being sparkly clean afterwards.

tahoejoe
Senior Member

Posted Sun Jan 13, 2013, 1:20pm Subject: Re: More Questions

adam.. thx for the clarification

REMINDER: Never leave the roaster unattended when in use !! And remember to use our Rosetta Stone tip PART V PARAGRAPH 3.. it works !!! www.behmor.com Twitter: www.twitter.com/behmor Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Behmor-Inc/214061212036763#!

MJW
Senior Member

Joined: 25 Jul 2012
Posts: 74
Location: Silicon Valley
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Jan 13, 2013, 3:24pm
Subject: Re: Descaling Procedure

tahoejoe Said:

MJW- what we surmise is either the scale flaked versus dissolved or the descaler wasn't fully dissolved.
what product were you using so we can offer other advice?

Posted January 13, 2013 link

Joe, I saw your other message, and I've sent support a heads up about sending in the machine. I'd prefer no swap for now, and that you folks figure things out first.

1) I used Dezcal, at 50 grams per liter. I poured Mavea-filtered water into the top of Brazen and poured the powder in there and stirred to dissolve. So, the Dezcal needed to dissolve in cold water which I now know is not optimal. I used manual release to heat it up, drain a little into the valve, and let it sit with lid on for about an hour.

It was after that first descale session that I noticed some stains / flakes bonded to the stainless steel kettle.

2) As I recall I tried a 1:5 mixture of white vinegar and M-filtered water, cold.

After 1) or 2) I noticed water retention and measured a 4-6 mL / s flow rate. (6 ml/s when draining 900 --> 600; 4 ml/s for 600 --> 0).

3) I tried citric acid at 14 grams, 28 grams, and 50 grams per liter concentrations. This time I boiled filtered water in a separate kettle, poured into another container, mixed in the citric acid there to stir & dissolve, then poured the mixture into the Brazen and let it sit for 2 hours with lid on. I poured the mixture out the top, I didn't drain it. No change on flow rate, stains / flecks still there.

4) I tried white vinegar 1:1 filtered water, boiling in the Brazen using the calibration procedure, and letting sit for a few hours. I drained the mixture out through the valve. I measured 7 mL / s flow rate, 600 --> 0 drain.

5) I tried white vinegar 1:1 with filtered water, boiling in the Brazen using the calibration procedure, and letting sit overnight. Come morning I find the valve clogged and buzzing is louder than normal.

tahoejoe
Senior Member

Posted Sun Jan 13, 2013, 3:24pm Subject: Re: de-scale procedure

Adam and everyone Here is a procedure our testing shows will clear up the issue: 10% citric acid solution. diluted in water 2 cups of solution is fine.. Pour solution into reservoir and do a manual heat up to appx 150F (heating in the reservoir breaks things up), then a manual release. It will likley struggle to start if severely blocked, then flow well Then follow w/ two full heat up standard cycles to clear out any citric acid solution.. Your coffee will taste significantly better and your brewer (all brewers for that matter) will last longer if you use a softened/ conditioned water versus using tap, if you use hard tap water odds are 10-1 you will have at some point in time scale build up. ** the above was tested on 3 systems today and cleared all to include one to have been found almost completely blocked with lime/ scale

REMINDER: Never leave the roaster unattended when in use !! And remember to use our Rosetta Stone tip PART V PARAGRAPH 3.. it works !!! www.behmor.com Twitter: www.twitter.com/behmor Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Behmor-Inc/214061212036763#!

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