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Vince Fedele's NBC Talk
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Discussions > Coffee > Machines > Vince Fedele's...  
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redkiosk
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redkiosk
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Espresso: Illy Francis-Francis X1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso w/ Esatto...
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Posted Tue Dec 4, 2012, 11:49am
Subject: Re: Vince Fedele's NBC Talk
 

With a brewer like the Trifecta MB and the fact that during press-out phase, the air pressure seems to push every last drop of liquid into the cup, would the brew ratio be somewhat less than the +15% adjustment for infusion? Just wondering, because after all the visible liquid has been pressed out into the cup, there is a decent amount of time after that when air pressure is still exerted on the grounds (pump running and drips coming out) and then a final "air puff" that pushes out what little liquid is left under the filter screen. After knocking whatever grounds I can out of the brew chamber, I usually have to use the faucet sprayer to get the remaining grounds out.

 
The pathologically precise are annoying, but right!
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Netphilosopher
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Posted Tue Dec 4, 2012, 11:52am
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Netphilosopher
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Posted Tue Dec 4, 2012, 11:59am
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jpender
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Posted Tue Dec 4, 2012, 12:17pm
Subject: Re: Vince Fedele's NBC Talk
 

It's perhaps worth mentioning that the absorption (A) that Netphilosopher is talking about differs from the liquid retained ratio (LRR) that VST uses.

LRR = A + y, where y = extraction yield (solubles in cup / initial coffee)

So LRR is roughly 0.2 greater than A.
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Lee_M
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Lee_M
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Posted Tue Dec 4, 2012, 10:41pm
Subject: Re: Vince Fedele's NBC Talk
 

Netphilosopher Said:

Here's an Espresso double Ristretto (2nd attempt)

Espresso Double Ristretto

C 15
S 0.098
Y 2
P 30
E 0.196


I captured 4.2g of stuff after the shot, then diluted to 10g total with water, and the strength of this concoction was 1.53% - or .153/4.2 = 3.64% when it came out of the machine, or about 37% of the strength of the shot.  So the strength of the coffee in the grounds during a full percolation is not exactly zero, but compared to the stuff in the cup, you can treat it as essentially zero.

Posted December 4, 2012 link

Hang on a second. If absorption is 1.1g/g in espresso, and the retained liquid is 3.64% TDS, then that's 0.6g of extracted solids unaccounted for. That's the difference between 19.6% extraction and 23.6% extraction! Am I wrong?
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GlennV
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Posted Wed Dec 5, 2012, 4:11am
Subject: Re: Vince Fedele's NBC Talk
 

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Netphilosopher
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Posted Wed Dec 5, 2012, 6:05am
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Netphilosopher
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Posted Wed Dec 5, 2012, 6:46am
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jpender
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jpender
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Posted Wed Dec 5, 2012, 9:21am
Subject: Re: Vince Fedele's NBC Talk
 

Lee_M Said:

Hang on a second. If absorption is 1.1g/g in espresso, and the retained liquid is 3.64% TDS, then that's 0.6g of extracted solids unaccounted for. That's the difference between 19.6% extraction and 23.6% extraction! Am I wrong?

Posted December 4, 2012 link

I think GlennV is correct. For the purposes of a percolation brew, it isn't extracted if it's still in the puck. The composition of solubles there is different than what is in the cup, so the traditional yield method of calculating extraction makes sense. In immersion brewing, where the solubles in the puck are virtually identical to what is in the cup, what's in the puck IS "extracted".

This is why it is reasonable to pretend that the retained liquid in a drip brew has solute concentration of zero.
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Netphilosopher
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Posted Wed Dec 5, 2012, 11:53am
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