Posted Mon Nov 12, 2012, 2:20pm Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
CraigA Said:
When I was timing my .6 liter brew & a 1.2 liter brew (it's been a while & I didn't write anything down), but going from memory I had 4 minutes for .6 liter & 4 minutes 10 - 15 seconds or so for a 1.2 liter brew., but I don't use nearly as much coffee as you guys do.
In about 20 minutes, I'll time exactly a 1 liter water throughput. You guys what me to do multiple runs & vary the temp, to see if that has any variance on the time?
Actually, without a pre-soak, just an empty basket and total delivery time for .6l and 1.2l is sufficient. My guess is the system controls the delivery (by opening/closing the water delivery valve) to around 4 minutes - implying an effective delivery rate dependent on the water amount.
It's an innovative way to do it. Time stays constant, where almost all other brewers have a fixed delivery rate and a time that varies depending on the amount of brew water.
For consistency, then, all you have to do is get the percolation rate to be the same or slightly slower than the delivery rate (by adjusting grind for the amount of coffee/bed depth) and you get a really consistent cup (or pot, as the case may be).
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
Posted Mon Nov 12, 2012, 2:27pm Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
Personally, I think that a 4 minute water delivery time is darn close to ideal. With a Technivorm, you get over 5 minutes to boil and drip a full capacity pot. I also think the T-KBTS is a bit overboard on temperature.
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
The_Coffee_Guy Senior Member Joined: 5 Jan 2009 Posts: 107 Location: Toronto Expertise: I live coffee
Grinder: Baratza Encore Drip: Behmor BraZen Brew System,...
Posted Mon Nov 12, 2012, 2:33pm Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
What is also quite amazing is the energy consumption is there for the heating process only to bring it up to temperature, no over-shoot on temperature, and there is more than enough insulation going on to keep the temperature for the entire brew process. Magnificent really. That reminds me, almost time for another cup :-)
Posted Mon Nov 12, 2012, 2:37pm Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
I agree Steve. The brew time for my BUNN VPR-APS pourover is 4 minutes for a US ½ gallon (64oz brew). As you're saying & I've experimented over the years with varing amounts of coffee, fast flow filters, etc.
The BUNN BTX-B I have is rated to do a 50oz brew in 3 minutes flat.
P.S. Adam, yes it really is a ground breaking brewer & I'm absolutely thrilled with it! As was stated by Joe & linked to, I HOPE the SCAA (they said after the summer I believe), that they'd then be back up & accepting technical submissions for the home brewing market & this has caused Joe a major delay & headaches I'm sure in getting the BraZen SCAA certified since Joe had his working model (not prototype) ready in his hands since back in May (estimated quess) or some such?
This major delay on the SCAA's end has cost who knows how many hundreds of previous sales that would of happened if the word was out on the SCAA website about the specs of the Brazen, before they shut down for the summer!
Posted Mon Nov 12, 2012, 3:15pm Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
CraigA Said:
This major delay on the SCAA's end has cost who knows how many hundreds of previous sales that would of happened if the word was out on the SCAA website about the specs of the Brazen, before they shut down for the summer!
That *is* annoying, but I kind of doubt the SCAA's foot-dragging has hurt sales. No good reason on my part--just the suspicion that if you know about the Brazen you want it regardless. It's an empirical question, ultimately. Are any non-geeks buying this machine?
Back to the SCAA, according to your link the Brazen should be certified (assuming all goes well) in time for the holiday shopping season, no?
Posted Mon Nov 12, 2012, 3:44pm Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
jbviau Said:
That *is* annoying, but I kind of doubt the SCAA's foot-dragging has hurt sales. No good reason on my part--just the suspicion that if you know about the Brazen you want it regardless. It's an empirical question, ultimately. Are any non-geeks buying this machine?
That's what I mean too Joshua. The number of geeks buying the brewer definitely want it & we're what 1 - 2% or whatever the ratio is of informed coffee people? It's the other 98 - 99% number of (I won't say totally clueless) the coffee market segment that I think a CG member likened to the Williams Sonoma crowd & such that is or could be the meat of the market?
I of course would like to believe that ALL the Coffeegeeks out there that know & appreciate what this brewer is & can do & the incredible value it represents would far outnumber the unwashed masses that know next to nothing about tech specs, performance, coffee, roasting, etc lol! It's possible that the top 5% of the informed Coffeegeeks will buy 95% of the brewers, kind of like 5% of the top sport fishermen know where & how to catch 95% of the fish.
Back to the SCAA, according to your link the Brazen should be certified (assuming all goes well) in time for the holiday shopping season, no?
Yes it sure looks that way, & I hope it gets certified in time!
Posted Mon Nov 12, 2012, 4:48pm Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
Yes, final timed beep. The brew cycle finishes running out from the bottom of the brew basket 1 minute 30 seconds earlier at 4:00 minutes in my case..
I've been too busy to get to my brewer & re-check too.
P.S. Addendum: I did this at 9:45pm my time. The manual release of .6 liter 200°F water took 2 minutes 5 seconds, the 1.2 liter release of same temp water took 3 minutes 15 seconds. I filled to the indicated lines for each respective amounts, but the volume may of varied minutely because of the meniscus effect & parallax error. I did measure the water out in a Pyrex container & the respective volumes came out more than the indicated lines for each of the volumes, so I just went with the embossed level indicator lines inside the water reservoir/tank.
infinus Senior Member Joined: 20 Jan 2012 Posts: 73 Location: Indiana, USA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Cheap POS Grinder: Baratza Preciso Vac Pot: Broken by the cats! Drip: Brazen, Technivorm Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Tue Nov 13, 2012, 12:18pm Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
The flow rate definitely slows once about half the water is out of the resevoir. My brewer takes about 30-60 seconds to beep "end of brew" once the resevoir is empty too. I'm not sure how it detects that the cycle is over. I suspect that it has to do with the temp probe registering a temperature drop once the chamber is empty.
infinus Senior Member Joined: 20 Jan 2012 Posts: 73 Location: Indiana, USA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Cheap POS Grinder: Baratza Preciso Vac Pot: Broken by the cats! Drip: Brazen, Technivorm Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Tue Nov 13, 2012, 12:19pm Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
Also, the Brazen does add heat to the resevoir to maintain temperature throughout the brew cycle. I've measure short pulses of between 150 and 200 watts as needed to keep the temperature consistent through the brew.
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