Posted Mon Nov 12, 2012, 11:38am Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
Like anything, there's a range that works. It all depends on how you like to consume the end product.
3-weeks post roast will work fine if the coffee hasn't staled yet. Properly stored, etc. Is it completely fresh? Heck no. Can it still be pleasant to drink? You bet.
I spend quite a bit of time testing limits of brewing coffee. Something happens right around 205°F - even if properly extracted (or even underextracted) there's a distinct bitterness that pops into the cup - EVEN when the coffee is properly extracted. The folks at America's Test Kitchen call them "tannins" but I think this isn't strictly the case. I'm not sure if there are actually "tannins" per se in Coffee, but there's something that acts a lot like it (call it high temperature lipids, or bitter compounds). Tea, especially Chinese red (black) tea, also has a distinct flavor transition when the strike temperature goes above 204°F or 205°F. Bitter, astringent, and even a faint hint of iodine.
On the lower side, strike temperatures for pourovers with a fine enough grind as low as 185°F can have excellent flavor balance, an overall mellowness, and great fruit and sweetness if the varietal has it.
Every pourover has slurry temperatures going below the ever-recommended temperature range. It's unavoidable - unless you're relentlessly re-heating your pouring water and have a superinsulated and fully pre-heated brewer. The CCD drops temperature, as does a french press or aeropress. It turns out that this isn't as big a deal as it seems.
Among the better pots of coffee I've made, I've done with a Bunn pourover which uncannily delivered the brew water at 190°F for 90% of the 3 1/2 minute brew cycle. Get the grind right and it could pull great flavor out of the humblest of coffees, and delivered a 19% extraction with an 18 water brew ratio all day long.
The brew ratios, slurry temperatures, agitation or no agitation and (no offense Joe) the brewer itself - all variants on the brew process. The rest comes from experience, and the only way to gain that experience is to try it.
I don't know how low the Brazen will allow you to brew, but try a pot at the minimum temperature (assuming it's above 155°F). I think you might be surprised. The solution set for this is not a one-step answer, either. The lower temperature means you need to adjust the grind A LITTLE BIT - too fine and you'll have basket overrun, but you need to get the percolation to slow down enough to allow the lower temperature water to dissolve the solute.
Overly high temperature = bitter. Low temperature may underextract, but that's really the only danger. Lower temperature stretches the time for dissolution to happen, but also doesn't dissolve (or emulsify) some of the compounds that are responsible for undesirable tastes. Lower temperature stretches the time factor so much that even high pressure can't make up for it (and why espresso is so sensitive to brew temperature).
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
Posted Mon Nov 12, 2012, 11:43am Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
Joe,
Do you know what the delivery rate in grams/second is set at for the BraZen?
IIRC, the Bunn I used to play with delivered around 8-8.5g/second. My Melitta BCM-4C is 1.7 for cool water to over 3 for hot water in the reservoir.
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
Posted Mon Nov 12, 2012, 11:49am Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
Netphilosopher Said:
I don't know how low the Brazen will allow you to brew, but try a pot at the minimum temperature (assuming it's above 155°F). I think you might be surprised.
Do you know if the brew water delivery rate is variable or fixed? If fixed, can you put a stopwatch to a liter of water and see how long it takes?
I find the percolation rates of flat bottomed baskets fairly repeatable and dependent only on grind and bed depth (so long as temperature is > 150°F). Of course, nothing is easy, so the percolation rate of cone-shaped baskets is more complicated... LOL
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
The_Coffee_Guy Senior Member Joined: 5 Jan 2009 Posts: 107 Location: Toronto Expertise: I live coffee
Grinder: Baratza Encore Drip: Behmor BraZen Brew System,...
Posted Mon Nov 12, 2012, 1:22pm Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
I thought the specs indicated 150ml in 15 seconds (with it being grams to ml 1:1 would seem to indicate 10g per second) and I think it has been constant from my many pots made without me timing it....Craig, does that sound right?
Posted Mon Nov 12, 2012, 2:03pm Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
tahoejoe Said:
Folks..
Don't forget you do have a Manual Feature.
It's in the manual Page 6: Brew using Manual Release..
Each time you open or close the valve a timer counts UP so you can gauge the release or time closed. Appx water flow is 10ml per second but will slow slightly as head pressure lessens.
Point is you are not confined to our pre-program..
Ah - found it. 10ml/sec which is ~9.5-10g/sec depending.
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
When I was timing my .6 liter brew & a 1.2 liter brew (it's been a while & I didn't write anything down), but going from memory I had 4 minutes for .6 liter & 4 minutes 10 - 15 seconds or so for a 1.2 liter brew., but I don't use nearly as much coffee as you guys do.
In about 20 minutes, I'll time exactly a 1 liter water throughput. You guys what me to do multiple runs & vary the temp, to see if that has any variance on the time?
Posted Mon Nov 12, 2012, 2:06pm Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
So the delivery for 1.2liters is 2 minutes?
And for 600ml is only 1 minute? This seems very short.
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
Posted Mon Nov 12, 2012, 2:14pm Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
Sorry - haven't played with one. Looks like the delivery of brew water is controlled by the valve, using pulse. Great thinking - and an overall target of ~4 minutes.
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
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