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Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
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The_Coffee_Guy
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The_Coffee_Guy
Joined: 5 Jan 2009
Posts: 123
Location: Toronto
Expertise: I live coffee

Grinder: Baratza Encore
Drip: Behmor BraZen Brew System,...
Posted Mon Jan 21, 2013, 5:11am
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

I am curious if it has to do with the temp of the water when you run the descaling solution through it. When I run the citric acid solution through my BraZen I do it only taking the water to 150F and the same when I rinse it through afterwards. Maybe over-reaction of the solution is due to the temperature at time of cleaning cycle and tames things down when cleaning is at lower temperatures.
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JavaGator
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Joined: 27 Sep 2012
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Location: Orlando FL
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Posted Mon Jan 21, 2013, 5:23am
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

The_Coffee_Guy Said:

I am curious if it has to do with the temp of the water when you run the descaling solution through it. When I run the citric acid solution through my BraZen I do it only taking the water to 150F and the same when I rinse it through afterwards. Maybe over-reaction of the solution is due to the temperature at time of cleaning cycle and tames things down when cleaning is at lower temperatures.

Posted January 21, 2013 link

I ran the Dezcal solution at the 203 I brew at.  It started leaking on the descale cycle and continued when I ran two rinse cycles, also at 203.  The leaking continued on my first brew cycle with grounds.  But this AM, I ran a brew cycle and it didn't leak.
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germantownrob
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germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,135
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Mon Jan 21, 2013, 6:20am
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

The more I read about the issues people are having with using of using descale solution the more I am reminded of why manufactures and distributers recommend home owners don't do descaling. What is recommended is to use water that won't scale so descale is not necessary. I cant argue with this advise considering after 8 successful descales my last one created a leak because I tried a different technique, I overfilled the boiler to the top then heated the boiler and forgot to turn it off before it pressurized, the pressure valve on the boiler either got stuck with a piece of scale or just failed, well it found a weak spot and released its pressure and contents of the boiler. Another time a piece of scale clogged the HX system and limited flow by 2/3rds until I ran more solution to disolve it.

Drip machines are not pressurizing the water in a boiler at 245-265f for long periods of time so they can handle water that is harder then a pressurized boiler with out a scale problem. If scale is building up in a drip machine in a short time then IMO the water must be very hard. Cleaning an espresso machine boiler allows both heat and soak for dissolving the scale, in a drip there is only temp and a short contact time. I know with other cleaning solution like dish soap for example temperature changes how quickly it can do its job, a greasy pot can be cleaned in cold soapy water but will clean far quicker in the same solution of hot soapy water. Joe has recommended 150f for temp with citric acid with multiple pour throughs of the solution to disolve the scale. Hotter temps may be breaking scale free but until it dissolves it is a solid ready to block flow of water until it dissolves. My advice is to follow Joe's advice to the T.

I have stopped using Britta Pitcher water for the Brazen since knowing it has a screen I cannot get to to clean. My Britta let's decent sized particals  of charcoal into the filtered water, they never make it to a glass but empty the pitcher into the reservoir and there is ten or twenty pieces. My gut is telling me that the Brazen might benefit from a pre screen I can actually clean.
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tahoejoe
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tahoejoe
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
Posts: 576
Location: San Diego/ Incline Village Nv.
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Grinder: Solis Maestro
Drip: Behmor Brazen Brew System
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Jan 21, 2013, 6:40am
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

JavaGator Said:

I ran the Dezcal solution at the 203 I brew at.  It started leaking on the descale cycle and continued when I ran two rinse cycles, also at 203.  The leaking continued on my first brew cycle with grounds.  But this AM, I ran a brew cycle and it didn't leak.

Posted January 21, 2013 link

Ah... leakage around or from the grounds basket can also result from totally immersing the grounds basket it water. It is comprised of two pieces and if submerged AND not set out to dry (water drain from between the two pieces) completely water could have gotten between the front face plate and the basket.. I know because my wife has done this.

One thing I need to point out is the issue about scaling has been very minor numerically speaking according to our stats. Normally all manufacturers experience 3-5% defect ratio in normal production runs. First runs generally can go higher. Our current stats show we are still sub 3% which includes the scaling.

I'm off to Asia tomnorrow and meetings are already scheduled on all aspects of the brewer to include manual changes to heighten awareness of the issues high mineral content water can do to equipment in general and coffee.

*** I should add we are never satisfied with any defect ratio be it 1% or above but recognize the reality of manufacturing.

 
REMINDER: Never leave the roaster unattended when in use !!   And remember to use our Rosetta Stone tip PART V PARAGRAPH 3.. it works !!!

www.behmor.com

Twitter: www.twitter.com/behmor
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tahoejoe
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tahoejoe
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
Posts: 576
Location: San Diego/ Incline Village Nv.
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Grinder: Solis Maestro
Drip: Behmor Brazen Brew System
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Jan 21, 2013, 7:09am
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

roastmybeans Said:

another Brazen user with similar issues mentioned here - water left in the top..
an inch or so

yes I descaled ( several times ) CLR
yes it  has been working fine
no I don't use lab grade reverse osmosis 0 ppm water
manual release after the cycle does drain it with top off... perhaps the vac issue?
dumping the water out by tipping the unit caused water to kill my 'beep after done'
not looking forward to expensive shipping costs... those that had to send back did they cover costs?

I will test a manual dump with top on and off..

Posted January 18, 2013 link

More from the resident chemist...  Besides being toxic as hell CLR eats away at brass.. the brewer has a brass valve.

Only use products we recommend.. please.. Citric acid, Dezcal or other decalers specific to coffee equipment

Here is the procedure again if using cirtic acid, for other use the procedure and temperature guidelines of 150:

Mix 50 g (4 T) of granular citric acid in 2 cups of warm water until dissolved.  This is 10%.  Note:  Many people use 1 T/4 cups as a maintenance solution - we are doing restorative, hence much stronger, but with very short contact time.

Put 10% solution in brewer.
With manual release, heat to 150 F.
Release water until half is gone - about 30 seconds. (fully clogged units started flowing within about 15 seconds) Shut the valve and wait 30 seconds.
Open the valve and allow to fully drain.
Solution can be saved for many more uses.
Fill reservoir with water.  Again, heat to about 150 and let drain through.  If everything is now working right, release time should be between 2:30 and 3:00 minutes.

 
REMINDER: Never leave the roaster unattended when in use !!   And remember to use our Rosetta Stone tip PART V PARAGRAPH 3.. it works !!!

www.behmor.com

Twitter: www.twitter.com/behmor
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Behmor-Inc/214061212036763#!
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JavaGator
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Location: Orlando FL
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Posted Mon Jan 21, 2013, 7:20am
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

tahoejoe Said:

More from the resident chemist...  Besides being toxic as hell CLR eats away at brass.. the brewer has a brass valve.

Only use products we recommend.. please.. Citric acid, Dezcal or other decalers specific to coffee equipment

Here is the procedure again if using cirtic acid, for other use the procedure and temperature guidelines of 150:

Mix 50 g (4 T) of granular citric acid in 2 cups of warm water until dissolved.  This is 10%.  Note:  Many people use 1 T/4 cups as a maintenance solution - we are doing restorative, hence much stronger, but with very short contact time.

Put 10% solution in brewer.
With manual release, heat to 150 F.
Release water until half is gone - about 30 seconds. (fully clogged units started flowing within about 15 seconds) Shut the valve and wait 30 seconds.
Open the valve and allow to fully drain.
Solution can be saved for many more uses.
Fill reservoir with water.  Again, heat to about 150 and let drain through.  If everything is now working right, release time should be between 2:30 and 3:00 minutes.

Posted January 21, 2013 link

That's good to know.  My drain time is under 3 minutes so I guess my flow is good.  Do you have any comment on my shower head only dispensing to the center right of the head?  If I tip the unit a little I get flow from center left.  I checked with a level and my Brazen sits perfectly level but the water flow is only center right.  Is it designed to shower from all openings in the shower head?
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roastmybeans
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Joined: 24 Oct 2012
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Expertise: I live coffee

Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso
Drip: Chemex, Mocamaster
Roaster: Nesco
Posted Mon Jan 21, 2013, 8:06am
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

comments withheld until unit is exchanged...
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tahoejoe
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tahoejoe
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
Posts: 576
Location: San Diego/ Incline Village Nv.
Expertise: I live coffee

Grinder: Solis Maestro
Drip: Behmor Brazen Brew System
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Jan 21, 2013, 8:33am
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

Mea culpa time.. was in a bit of a stupor this morning, weighed beans and then did an oops... I dumped the beans in the reservoir..

Thank goodness they were still whole bean..

 
REMINDER: Never leave the roaster unattended when in use !!   And remember to use our Rosetta Stone tip PART V PARAGRAPH 3.. it works !!!

www.behmor.com

Twitter: www.twitter.com/behmor
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Behmor-Inc/214061212036763#!
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tahoejoe
Senior Member
tahoejoe
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
Posts: 576
Location: San Diego/ Incline Village Nv.
Expertise: I live coffee

Grinder: Solis Maestro
Drip: Behmor Brazen Brew System
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Jan 21, 2013, 8:37am
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

Java.. Short answer is the water will not come out of all the holes simultaneously. What transpires is as water goes into the dispersion disc it gets channeled to holes, as the channel fills water should migrate to other holes.. but you'll never see them all at once.

 
REMINDER: Never leave the roaster unattended when in use !!   And remember to use our Rosetta Stone tip PART V PARAGRAPH 3.. it works !!!

www.behmor.com

Twitter: www.twitter.com/behmor
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Behmor-Inc/214061212036763#!
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tahoejoe
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tahoejoe
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
Posts: 576
Location: San Diego/ Incline Village Nv.
Expertise: I live coffee

Grinder: Solis Maestro
Drip: Behmor Brazen Brew System
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Jan 21, 2013, 8:40am
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

roastmybeans Said:

comments withheld until unit is exchanged...

Posted January 21, 2013 link

Your using CLR is our fault for not being more concise/ clear in our manual, so please do not misread my comments as being anything negative at you. That is not my intent.

I'm at this point trying to merely make it clear what to use and why..

 
REMINDER: Never leave the roaster unattended when in use !!   And remember to use our Rosetta Stone tip PART V PARAGRAPH 3.. it works !!!

www.behmor.com

Twitter: www.twitter.com/behmor
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Behmor-Inc/214061212036763#!
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