Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Coffee: Machines and Brewing Methods
Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
Learn @seattlecoffeegear
Learn all about coffee, watch videos, read how-to articles.
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Coffee > Machines > Now we know what...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 81 of 113 first page | last page previous page | next page
Author Messages
MJW
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jul 2012
Posts: 179
Location: Silicon Valley
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Jan 14, 2013, 3:11pm
Subject: Re: de-scale procedure
 

Jim, it may indeed help.  But it seems like the valve is designed to have water move one way.  I mean, we don't want scale at the bottom to move up into the body.

My understanding is that the screen is there to prevent stuff from getting into the valve body itself, where water takes a pretty tortuous path, and debris / scale can so easily prevent the valve from working.

I think that these valves are used everywhere in e.g. washing machines and dishwashers, and are taking City water unfiltered.  I don't immediately know why Brazen's valve might be sensitive, although the other appliances take water that is under line pressure, not gravity.  Well, also, perhaps the water is not evaporating in those other applications.

In my case, doing a preventative descale at one month caused water retention.  Before that, the unit was operating fine.

From what Joe has said, it seems like the solution is going to involve using "neutral" water that has very low TDS (total dissolved solids).  If the Zerowater system, which offers zero TDS water, tastes good in coffee, then that sounds really attractive.

In any case, John Nanci's work on finding a robust descaling procedure that can restore units, is important because most machines are likely to want descaling at some point.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
germantownrob
Senior Member
germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,146
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Tue Jan 15, 2013, 8:08am
Subject: Re: de-scale procedure
 

Might be a good time to post this again

http://www.big-rick.com/coffee/waterfaq.html

I have descaled my Oscar espresso machine every six months for the last 3.5 years, my water is under 6 grains of hardness (under 3 grains espresso boilers should be fine) enough scale would build up enough to have to increase the boiler temp/pressure to compensate, if I have to do a second adjustment I have waited to long for a descale. In my learning curve of descaling my machine I have had large flakes of scale clog valves which restricted flow by more then 3/4 because I was not running enough solution through the HX system to disolve the scale.

IMO if you are running citric acid through multiple times and it is not dissolving the clog then the clog is not scale. My Britta filter will let small pieces of charcoal get into the drinking reservoir, I have found it floating around the Brazen reservoir multiple times, I stopped using the Britta and now use my fridge filtered water to avoid a blockage.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
CraigA
Moderator
CraigA
Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 11,233
Location: Rexdale, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: PID/PressureMod 2001...
Grinder: BUNN FPG-2 DBC, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos manual, Yama 5...
Drip: Behmor BraZen, BUNN VPR-APS,...
Roaster: Refurb Behmor 1600, BBQ...
Posted Tue Jan 15, 2013, 8:32am
Subject: Re: de-scale procedure
 

germantownrob Said:

Might be a good time to post this again

http://www.big-rick.com/coffee/waterfaq.html

Posted January 15, 2013 link

I was wondering when someone would get around to posting it again Rob!
Glad you did as after reading the flurry of posts about the proper concentration of a citric acid solution, I was going to soon.

 
http://twitter.com/CoffeegeekCraig
http://www.facebook.com/craig.andrews.169

Excellent coffee doesn't just happen!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Contact via AOL Instant Messenger Contact via ICQ Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
JKalpin
Senior Member
JKalpin
Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Posts: 794
Location: Thornhill, Ontario Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Aerobie Aeropress
Grinder: Baratza Maestro Plus
Vac Pot: Yama 5-Cup
Drip: Krups Moka Brew, BraZen
Roaster: Freshroast+8, Behmor 1600
Posted Tue Jan 15, 2013, 3:58pm
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

From published data, York Region (a suburb of Toronto, Canada) supplies water with a hardness of 6 grains per USG.

It makes sense that espresso machines that raise steam up to 5 or 6 bars (?) and use it to make micro foam should have Ca/Mg deposits that need to be removed, from time to time.

I have had a Krups Moka Brew coffee-machine now three years and have made hundreds of pots of coffee.  And it does so at 2 or 3 bars (?) of pressure.  

When I disassemble it for filling see a flat reservoir around 3 inches high with a BIG filling hole (say) 5 inches in diameter.  I inspected it this morning.  It has never been cleaned.  I can see all the SS surfaces and the big SS heating coil with only a thin beige coating that I suppose is hardness deposit.  There are no debris of any kind on the bottom.  Not one crumb that would invite me to do a citric acid cleaning.  

I know the 'hardness' is in the water.  I clean my Air-O-Swiss Humidifier every 2 weeks.  I clean my Panasonic Hot-Pot every 2 months (both with citric acid solution).  But a coffee-maker with little or no sustained boiling ...?!

My question is:  Are we pursuing the wrong root cause?

 
Jerry
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
yakster
Senior Member
yakster
Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 1,030
Location: San Jose, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Factory / La Peppina...
Grinder: Vario / Kyocera
Vac Pot: Yama 8 + Pyrex Lox-in Rod
Drip: Brazen / Kalita / Chemex /...
Roaster: Behmor
Posted Tue Jan 15, 2013, 4:43pm
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

Jerry,

Is the water heated in the reservoir of the Krups Moka Brew or is it heated after that point?  You wouldn't see much scaling in the reservoir if the water is not heated at that point.

In the BraZen, the water is heated in the fill reservoir instead of a point after that.

 
-Chris

LMWDP # 272
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
CraigA
Moderator
CraigA
Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 11,233
Location: Rexdale, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: PID/PressureMod 2001...
Grinder: BUNN FPG-2 DBC, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos manual, Yama 5...
Drip: Behmor BraZen, BUNN VPR-APS,...
Roaster: Refurb Behmor 1600, BBQ...
Posted Tue Jan 15, 2013, 4:52pm
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

JKalpin Said:

From published data, York Region (a suburb of Toronto, Canada) supplies water with a hardness of 6 grains per USG.

Posted January 15, 2013 link

Yes, over the years I've posted the Lake Ontario Water Mineral Analysis chart 1983/85 water data sheet & 9.5 grains per Imperial gallon for the measurement back in the day then.

I have had a Krups Moka Brew coffee-machine now three years and have made hundreds of pots of coffee.  And it does so at 2 or 3 bars (?) of pressure.

According to Mark Prince site owner it's 1.2 bars.  

I know the 'hardness' is in the water.  I clean my Air-O-Swiss Humidifier every 2 weeks.  I clean my Panasonic Hot-Pot every 2 months (both with citric acid solution).  But a coffee-maker with little or no sustained boiling ...?!
My question is:  Are we pursuing the wrong root cause?

What we're concerned with is the water salts of permanent hardness, not so much salts of temporary hardness.
It'd take me too long to type it out, so I'll try to link to the chart on the CG forums & I think I have a full explanation there.. My notes are on the 1983 chart. If your water is brought to a hard boil (can't remember the time period, ˝hr or so?) & is allowed to cool down & then decanted, the temporary hardness expressed as (CaCO3 Calcium Carbonate {alkaline salt}) will be precipatated out in the order of 30 - 40%.

Yakster Said:

Is the water heated in the reservoir of the Krups Moka Brew or is it heated after that point.

It's heated in the reservoir.

 
http://twitter.com/CoffeegeekCraig
http://www.facebook.com/craig.andrews.169

Excellent coffee doesn't just happen!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Contact via AOL Instant Messenger Contact via ICQ Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
pgde
Senior Member


Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 18
Location: Tucson, AZ
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: None
Grinder: Kitchenaid KPCG100
Vac Pot: None
Drip: Behmor Brazen
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Tue Jan 15, 2013, 5:32pm
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

yakster Said:

Jerry,

Is the water heated in the reservoir of the Krups Moka Brew or is it heated after that point?  You wouldn't see much scaling in the reservoir if the water is not heated at that point.

In the BraZen, the water is heated in the fill reservoir instead of a point after that.

Posted January 15, 2013 link

I also have a Krups Moka Brew. The water is heated within the reservoir. And then the pressurized water travels up through pipes to the grounds basket.

P.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
IMAWriter
Senior Member
IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,851
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
Grinder: Forte, OE Pharos,...
Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup
Drip: Brazen, Kalita, Chemex,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600, CO/UFO combo
Posted Tue Jan 15, 2013, 5:32pm
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

Wow. Sorry a few of you are having an issue.
My water is tuned to 75ppm for my drip, and 125 for taste in my vac pots.
I've had absolutely NO problem with residue, slow pots, or water retention at the top (other than maybe 30ml tops)

As an experiment, perhaps try shortening the Presoak to 30 seconds, if only to change a parameter.
I'm scratching my head trying to figure it out. I assume all the other parameters are set...altitude being one of them.
Being perhaps less mechanically inclined than others, I'm stumped.
With roasters and grinders, voltage is part of the equation. Not sure if lack of proper voltage would affect the output of the BraZen. I wouldn't think so.
Time for me to shut up. :>D

 
Rob J (LMWDP #187)
My Music Production web site:
www.robertjason.com
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
roastmybeans
Senior Member


Joined: 24 Oct 2012
Posts: 13
Location: Coffeeville
Expertise: I live coffee

Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso
Drip: Chemex, Mocamaster
Roaster: Nesco
Posted Fri Jan 18, 2013, 3:09pm
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

another Brazen user with similar issues mentioned here - water left in the top..
an inch or so

yes I descaled ( several times ) CLR
yes it  has been working fine
no I don't use lab grade reverse osmosis 0 ppm water
manual release after the cycle does drain it with top off... perhaps the vac issue?
dumping the water out by tipping the unit caused water to kill my 'beep after done'
not looking forward to expensive shipping costs... those that had to send back did they cover costs?

I will test a manual dump with top on and off..
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
CraigA
Moderator
CraigA
Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 11,233
Location: Rexdale, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: PID/PressureMod 2001...
Grinder: BUNN FPG-2 DBC, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos manual, Yama 5...
Drip: Behmor BraZen, BUNN VPR-APS,...
Roaster: Refurb Behmor 1600, BBQ...
Posted Fri Jan 18, 2013, 3:21pm
Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
 

IMAWriter Said:

Wow. Sorry a few of you are having an issue.
My water is tuned to 75ppm for my drip, and 125 for taste in my vac pots.
I've had absolutely NO problem with residue, slow pots, or water retention at the top (other than maybe 30ml tops)

Posted January 15, 2013 link

I'm sorry to hear this too Rob!
I don't have any issues at all, & one can see by my water chart link above., I have moderately hard water at 9.5 grains (Clarkes Degrees) per Imperial gallon.
In my old "The Big Book of Brewing" by David Line, water between 7 - 14 gpg (grains per Imp gallon) is classified as medium soft! {:-O

Time for me to shut up. :>D

Nah, never say that Rob!!

 
http://twitter.com/CoffeegeekCraig
http://www.facebook.com/craig.andrews.169

Excellent coffee doesn't just happen!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Contact via AOL Instant Messenger Contact via ICQ Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
showing page 81 of 113 first page | last page previous page | next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Coffee > Machines > Now we know what...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Cafe Solutions
Commercial sales and service, nationwide installation, equipment leasing options.
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.357406139374)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+