Sisyphus1978 Senior Member Joined: 26 Nov 2012 Posts: 6 Location: Abingdon Expertise: I love coffee
Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso Drip: Brazen Roaster: Nesco/West Bend
Posted Tue Nov 27, 2012, 7:26pm Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
Sadly, the Costa Rican turned out bitter at 204 with same grind and pre-soak settings. At least I think it was bitter and not sour. I think I'll dial it back to 202 tomorrow and reduce grind by a notch to see if that yields better results. I'm just thankful caffeine doesn't affect me too much or I'd probably never sleep again, with all of the testing I've done the last few days.
Posted Tue Nov 27, 2012, 7:38pm Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
EricBNC Said:
Then why did you offer the recipe to the new owner's question? It sounds like your results are still very much a work in progress - why not just say that then?
Because I was attempting to be helpful. Did you miss this part of my response?
"The key, as with all brewing methods, it to find your sweet spot. I can give you my current recipe, but since beans, roast, personal taste, grinders, etc. can all vary there's no one formula that will work best for everyone."
I offered a recipe that I found exceptionally good to encourage him to keep adjusting, and not get discouraged, because the machine is capable of great results.
Actually, strength and extraction can be thought of as independent variables. They are related by the brew ratio.
The AeroPress according to recommended recipe (10 second steep/30 second press on fine grind with lower temperature water) makes slightly underextracted coffee at a high strength, as an example.
His recipe is 23 water brew ratio - which isn't that far off. At 20% extraction, the strength will be right around typical McDonalds coffee (around 0.90%). Many people find this strength just fine.
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
IMAWriter Senior Member Joined: 4 Jul 2002 Posts: 5,475 Location: Brentwood, TN Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Nothing at the moment Grinder: Vario-W,Preciso-Esatto/KyM... Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup Drip: Brazen.Chemex, Hario, Clever... Roaster: Behmor 1600, CO/UFO combo
Posted Tue Nov 27, 2012, 9:45pm Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
Sisyphus1978 Said:
Sadly, the Costa Rican turned out bitter at 204 with same grind and pre-soak settings. At least I think it was bitter and not sour. I think I'll dial it back to 202 tomorrow and reduce grind by a notch to see if that yields better results. I'm just thankful caffeine doesn't affect me too much or I'd probably never sleep again, with all of the testing I've done the last few days.
Jeff, the fact is we all have had to learn the bitter/sour thing, as it can often be (depending on the coffee) a bit tricky to suss it out. That said, have you considered that your problems might be due to the coffee?
I'd venture to say most here, including myself that have a BraZen have had a relatively easy time dialing in the specific coffee's we use, and volume of coffee is usually not that variable. A degree or 2 f can make a significant difference, but even then I've found it difficult to make a less than enjoyable cup. When I hit a coffee, usually on the 2nd try, it's consistent from then on. My first 4-5 pots were experimental, using differing water amounts to check out the possible variations in taste. In some cases, I used professionally roasted coffee I knew well, from a local roaster. In others, I used an Ethiopian Konga, roasted to city+ that I also know well, usually prepared in a Chemex. I prefer the BraZen slightly, for the reason it is at perfect serving temperature for my wife and daughter who add 1/2 and 1/2 or milk. I just pour my cup and wait a minute or so.
I just feel that one less variable might make short work of this. Keep the temperature at 201, or 93c, no more for now. Pre-soak at 1 minute, UNLESS your coffee is les than 3 days young from roast date.
Sisyphus1978 Senior Member Joined: 26 Nov 2012 Posts: 6 Location: Abingdon Expertise: I love coffee
Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso Drip: Brazen Roaster: Nesco/West Bend
Posted Wed Nov 28, 2012, 6:08am Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
IMAWriter Said:
Jeff, the fact is we all have had to learn the bitter/sour thing, as it can often be (depending on the coffee) a bit tricky to suss it out. That said, have you considered that your problems might be due to the coffee?
I'd venture to say most here, including myself that have a BraZen have had a relatively easy time dialing in the specific coffee's we use, and volume of coffee is usually not that variable. A degree or 2 f can make a significant difference, but even then I've found it difficult to make a less than enjoyable cup. When I hit a coffee, usually on the 2nd try, it's consistent from then on. My first 4-5 pots were experimental, using differing water amounts to check out the possible variations in taste. In some cases, I used professionally roasted coffee I knew well, from a local roaster. In others, I used an Ethiopian Konga, roasted to city+ that I also know well, usually prepared in a Chemex. I prefer the BraZen slightly, for the reason it is at perfect serving temperature for my wife and daughter who add 1/2 and 1/2 or milk. I just pour my cup and wait a minute or so.
I just feel that one less variable might make short work of this. Keep the temperature at 201, or 93c, no more for now. Pre-soak at 1 minute, UNLESS your coffee is les than 3 days young from roast date.
Yeah, I did consider that the coffee could be a problem, which is why I've tried 3 different types so far - house from CBD, and the two from SM's I've mentioned. But I've been the roaster in each case, so my next step is going to be hitting up my local coffee connection to get some third-party-roasted beans. Even though the beans I do smell great and are pretty uniform in color, such characteristics are not necessarily indicative of a great tasting cup. Besides, you're spot on about the ease of dialing things in after a try or two. Never really had this much inconsistency prior to declaring myself roast master. Thought about that this morning, actually. I suppose I've gone this long without changing that aspect because of the expense that went into getting the green beans and the Nesco; I'm trying to force the issue, essentially, despite both items being sunk costs. I'm probably trying to do too much, too, and should narrow my focuses a little more - i.e. perfect one coffee before moving on to the next.
EDIT: Yep, something's not right. The coffee that was supposed to produce notes of apple and white grape, with a finish reminiscent of chocolate milk, ended up tasting more like beef stock. Not terrible beef stock, mind you, but not great coffee, either.
In this case, it was more of a tomato flavor note instead of bright fruit that was attributed to over-fresh coffee, light roast, grind needing to be finer, and even a problem with the coffee bags causing premature oxidation.
I've been leaving my Brazen set to 205 lately and it's been working well for me for several different coffees right up until yesterday. I went from brewing Chromatic Coffee's great Kenya Mukuyuni Peaberry to Barefoot Coffee's Guatemala Palo Blanco and the resulting cup was a bit flat and missing the nice apple notes and acidity until the cup was starting to cool significantly. I brewed the same coffee today with the same grind setting but at 203 instead and the coffee was quite a bit sweeter right out of the pot.
Posted Wed Nov 28, 2012, 4:08pm Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
yakster Said:
the resulting cup was a bit flat and missing the nice apple notes and acidity until the cup was starting to cool significantly. I brewed the same coffee today with the same grind setting but at 203 instead and the coffee was quite a bit sweeter right out of the pot.
I had a similar experience last week that I posted about. At 204 the Ethiopia I was using had good deep body, but the high notes were missing. Leaving everything the same I tried 203 and the return of fruit was amazing. Good examples of why the Brazen is in a class by itself.
In this case, it was more of a tomato flavor note instead of bright fruit that was attributed to over-fresh coffee, light roast, grind needing to be finer, and even a problem with the coffee bags causing premature oxidation.
I've been leaving my Brazen set to 205 lately and it's been working well for me for several different coffees right up until yesterday. I went from brewing Chromatic Coffee's great Kenya Mukuyuni Peaberry to Barefoot Coffee's Guatemala Palo Blanco and the resulting cup was a bit flat and missing the nice apple notes and acidity until the cup was starting to cool significantly. I brewed the same coffee today with the same grind setting but at 203 instead and the coffee was quite a bit sweeter right out of the pot.
Ooh, thank you for that. Up until now I've been drinking the coffee less than 36 hours after roasting it, and in some cases less than 24 (but still more than 8), so maybe I do need to let them rest a little longer. I think I still have some of the beef broth beans, so maybe I can run another test at some point.
Posted Wed Nov 28, 2012, 5:53pm Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
Sisyphus1978 Said:
Up until now I've been drinking the coffee less than 36 hours after roasting it, and in some cases less than 24 (but still more than 8), so maybe I do need to let them rest a little longer. I think I still have some of the beef broth beans, so maybe I can run another test at some point.
I'd say that this is your main problem, not waiting long enough for the beans to develop to their full potential (a beans rest/degass/development-maturation period). Think of the top third of a Bell curve. It all depends on where you roast to on each individual beans "Bell curve" or its sweet spot, different for each bean & the resultant flavor profile. I'll post a pic of the graph from a way earlier post. They're a little too raw & the under developed flavor/s are predominate
Not that that's a bad thing, it depends on the bean type, the roast profile developement (or lack thereof)., a myriad of factors as discussed above. I've frequently been out of coffee & roasted up some of my Brazilian, Colombian etc & brewed up immediately & they were still pretty good but of course a little rough around the edges. {;-)
Posted Wed Nov 28, 2012, 8:24pm Subject: Re: Now we know what GORT is (Behmor BraZen Brewer)
Top third of the Bell curve (between the 2 white lines).
Picture the bell curve centered with the center highest point right at the center line peak (Full City/balancing point) on the 'Degrees of Roastng Chart' above & the third that's between the two white lines covering the three lines of balancing point.
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