hankg Senior Member Joined: 29 Dec 2004 Posts: 64 Location: California Expertise: I love coffee
Grinder: Saeco Titan Drip: Technivorm Thermal
Posted Fri Sep 14, 2012, 2:49pm Subject: Re: New Technivorm KGBT....could use some tips....
infinus Said:
In my opinion one of the shortcomings of the Technivorm is it's inadequate spray head.
Sure, everything gets wet by the end of the brew, but I don't think simply wicking up water from underneath is enough. I really wish the spray head would disperse water over a greater area of the brew basket. This is even more critical on freshly roasted coffee. Out of my Behmor roaster, I get a very powerful bloom in my coffee if I brew it without much rest. Enough bloom that I know there are grounds that don't get wet until near the end of the brew cycle without assistance.
So I like to give my brew basket a stir mid way through the cycle. This ensures pushing through any bloom and getting all grounds in some water. I find this makes a tremendous difference.
I tend to disagree...slightly. I agree that the initial dispersion may not be optimal. That's why I always spin the basket to get even initial coverage. After that, I think it does it correctly. Here's my reasoning. If the shower head was one that continued to spray out towards the edges of the brew basket, that's where the leas amount of coffee grounds are, which would, in my mind, allow water to pass through sooner. By spraying over the where the majority of coffee is, the water stays in contact longer. This in only my opinion and observation. Take it for what it's worth. I seem to recall that another coffee brewer does a slightly similar thing with it's shower head, even though it has holes that cover most of the brew basket. Once it gets going, most of the water goes through the center holes. Which one is that? The Bonavita.
Posted Sat Sep 15, 2012, 1:06am Subject: Re: New Technivorm KGBT....could use some tips....
You're voicing something I've wondered about for a long time, however all the people who fastidiously do manual pours from slightly odd looking kettles have presumably done their own research, and decided that's the best way to do it for them.
The Bonavita/Melitta does have a wider sprinkler than just a single hole, but it's only across about the middle half of the basket.
We probably need a good physicist who can model water flows through a porous mass in a conical basket to give a definitive reply, but I suspect that the exact basket shape, the ridges and where the holes are makes a difference too. As a guess, a flat basket type filter probably does need a good even spread of water to work properly.
Personally, I don't bother and just leave the devices to run by themselves. After all, the Technivorm and Melitta/Bonavita machines got their accreditations without anyone fiddling around during the brewing, and factors such as the time taken for all the coffee to be wetted, and the amount extracted from the coffee and the uniformity of its extraction are all tested and have to meet the required criteria for any machine to be listed.
I reckon those folk defining and carrying out the testing know what they're talking about objectively. Perhaps the "bloom" is more a visual distraction than any real impact on the brewed coffee. Might even be undesirable in terms of taste, but there's no accounting for that.
Posted Sun Sep 16, 2012, 5:45pm Subject: Re: New Technivorm KGBT....could use some tips....
In my TV KBTS, I use 40 g of coffee and 0.6L of water. Before starting the brew, I close the basket drip switch and let a few bursts of hot water go into the basket when there's enough water in there to really stir it up, I do so (usually w/a spoon), and then I set the switch to 1/2 flow and let it finish. Some of the coffee I use doesn't really need the stir, but some is quite buoyant (monsooned malabar, maybe?) and benefits significantly from agitation.
Posted Mon Sep 17, 2012, 6:48am Subject: Re: New Technivorm KGBT....could use some tips....
For quite some time the Technivorm was the gold standard of the drip world. I predict that this is about to change. The Behmor Brazen will be available this month. Preorders are already being taken by some resellers. - Cycled 15-second brew/15-second pause during the entire brew cycle gives time for the water to saturate and flow through the coffee without causing it to float - Programmable preinfusion time - Excellent water dispersion pattern - Digital setting to enter your altitude - Auto calibration function - Adjustable brew temperature - Thermal stainless steel carafe - Stainless water heating chamber - Flat-bottom gold filter basket - Clock timer for auto brew at the time of your choice - 2 year warranty and Behmor's highly-respected service and support - And about $100 less than the Technivorm.
And, no, I do not work for Behmor and they aren't a client. I have a review of the Brazen on my website.
infinus Senior Member Joined: 20 Jan 2012 Posts: 73 Location: Indiana, USA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Cheap POS Grinder: Baratza Preciso Vac Pot: Broken by the cats! Drip: Brazen, Technivorm Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Sep 17, 2012, 7:20am Subject: Re: New Technivorm KGBT....could use some tips....
hankg Said:
I tend to disagree...slightly. I agree that the initial dispersion may not be optimal. That's why I always spin the basket to get even initial coverage. After that, I think it does it correctly. Here's my reasoning. If the shower head was one that continued to spray out towards the edges of the brew basket, that's where the leas amount of coffee grounds are, which would, in my mind, allow water to pass through sooner. By spraying over the where the majority of coffee is, the water stays in contact longer. This in only my opinion and observation. Take it for what it's worth. I seem to recall that another coffee brewer does a slightly similar thing with it's shower head, even though it has holes that cover most of the brew basket. Once it gets going, most of the water goes through the center holes. Which one is that? The Bonavita.
I think that for non-home roasted coffee that I actually would agree with you. My problem is 90% with the inability without stirring for the TV to push through a significant coffee bloom. Too much coffee floats outside of where water falls, held up by all that gas being given off.
If you were to ever model it I think it would be important to differentiate between store bought and home roasted. They behave very differently in the brew basket.
Eiron Senior Member Joined: 12 Nov 2007 Posts: 332 Location: Loveland, Colorado Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Quick Mill 0930 Grinder: Quick Mill 031, Solis 166 Drip: TechniVorm KBTS Roaster: frying pan & wooden spatula
Posted Mon Sep 17, 2012, 10:24am Subject: Re: New Technivorm KGBT....could use some tips....
__________ Said:
... Personally, I don't bother and just leave the devices to run by themselves. After all, the Technivorm and Melitta/Bonavita machines got their accreditations without anyone fiddling around during the brewing, and factors such as the time taken for all the coffee to be wetted, and the amount extracted from the coffee and the uniformity of its extraction are all tested and have to meet the required criteria for any machine to be listed. ...
Agreed!! (However, I do understand the never ending quest for 'can it be better?', & the desire to play with one's toys...)
__________ Said:
... however all the people who fastidiously do manual pours from slightly odd looking kettles have presumably done their own research, and decided that's the best way to do it for them. ...
And now we have the Brazen, which uses sophisticated electronics to mimic exactly that! I guess that would make it the world's first 'automatic manual pour-over'! :-D
"Just what I need - another 'geek' label..." - my friend Mark, on being told of Coffee Geek's existence
Posted Mon Sep 17, 2012, 2:12pm Subject: Re: New Technivorm KGBT....could use some tips....
Eiron Said:
And now we have the Brazen, which uses sophisticated electronics to mimic exactly that! I guess that would make it the world's first 'automatic manual pour-over'! :-D
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