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Kone 3rd Generation
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Nickfrogger
Senior Member
Nickfrogger
Joined: 26 Nov 2010
Posts: 205
Location: Spokane
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia V3 w/PID,...
Grinder: Forte, Lelit PL53, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Yama TCA-5 Siphon
Drip: V60 (A red one!)
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2012, 3:16pm
Subject: Re: Kone 3rd Generation
 

At the SCAA last weekend I stopped by Coava (who's barista got 4th place in the USBC using the cones in his specialty drink) and I did not have any sediment in my Rwanda... However, they have $$$ grinders that won't produce fines. I'd have to say, though the cones can work well, blaming poor results on technique alone is a bit of a stretch.

Looks nice, and I'm glad to see new products coming out in the world of coffee! That being said, I'm still not getting one :D

~Nick

 
There's a big difference between drinking coffee to wake up and waking up to drink coffee.
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EvanOz85
Senior Member
EvanOz85
Joined: 9 Jul 2011
Posts: 268
Location: Lafayette, LA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: Baratza Vario and Preciso
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos, Yama 5-cup
Drip: Chemex, Kone 3, Kalita Wave,...
Roaster: Hottop B, Behmor 1600
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2012, 5:48pm
Subject: Re: Kone 3rd Generation
 

Nickfrogger Said:

blaming poor results on technique alone is a bit of a stretch.

Posted April 25, 2012 link

I don't think so! I use a Capresso Infinity...a far cry from a "$$$ grinder" and the sediment I get from the Kone 2 is minimal. The little sediment there is never makes its way out of the button on the Chemex so my cup is almost perfectly clean.
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dtlord
Senior Member
dtlord
Joined: 13 Mar 2009
Posts: 99
Location: Wisconsin
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera BZ07sde
Grinder: Super Jolly, Virtuoso
Vac Pot: Silex Victory, Cory, Sunbeam...
Drip: pour over w/ mesh or paper
Roaster: A nice guy named Roy
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2012, 6:07pm
Subject: Re: Kone 3rd Generation
 

Evan,

There is no "best" in the coffee world and I think most here would grudgingly agree. Every new product that is worth considering goes though a hype phase in which those of us in search of the "perfect cup" go gaga over the new device. After awhile most end up in the list of devices worth having or trying. I wish there was a best method or device as I would most likely purchase it. How ever I haven't seen the need to spend the money to purchase a Kone yet due to my own tastes and research. I don't doubt your satisfaction with the device. Nor am I all that surprised that not everyone is as pleased as you. I know a roaster/owner of a local coffee shop here locally that will not drink french press because of the sediment. I talked with him once about the Kone and he felt the same way. He wants a perfectly clean cup and prefers paper. What can you do? I like a good french press, not that I've brewed more than a single pot since I got the new Bezzera.

 
.....No matter where you go, there you are...
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EvanOz85
Senior Member
EvanOz85
Joined: 9 Jul 2011
Posts: 268
Location: Lafayette, LA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: Baratza Vario and Preciso
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos, Yama 5-cup
Drip: Chemex, Kone 3, Kalita Wave,...
Roaster: Hottop B, Behmor 1600
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2012, 6:47pm
Subject: Re: Kone 3rd Generation
 

Some of you people need to take a chill pill. I never said it made the best coffee in the world, nor that it is the best coffee maker in the world. I said that "I BELIEVE" it is the best POUR-OVER DEVICE.

That is MY opinion. This forum is for sharing opinions. I am not forcing people to take on my opinion or criticizing people for not agreeing with me. The only thing I criticized was the comment that the Kone produces tons of sediment. It is not my opinion that the Kone, when used properly, does not produce tons of sediment. It is a fact based on the hundreds of times I have used it.

Can we get back to talking about the Kone 3, or are you guys gonna keep hounding me about my personal opinions?
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barkingburro
Senior Member
barkingburro
Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 212
Location: Irvine, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Vac Pot: Trifecta MB, CafeSolo,...
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2012, 7:26pm
Subject: Re: Kone 3rd Generation
 

EvanOz85 Said:

Can we get back to talking about the Kone 3, or are you guys gonna keep hounding me about my personal opinions?

Posted April 25, 2012 link

I'll take "hounding" for fifty.

Ah, youth.  I just want to acknowledge we all should be aware that the OP has perceived his Chemex button to be soundly pushed.  Whether that results in muddying up this conversation further is more based on everyone's willingness to be a bit more cordial, regardless of the scoreboard.

Some of you can recover lost grace more quickly than others; you just have to wait for the rest to catch up.

 
- Michael
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TonyVan
Senior Member


Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 276
Location: Pacific Northwest
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: GS/3, La Pavoni
Grinder: Macap M7K, Rocky
Drip: Kone
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2012, 9:21pm
Subject: Re: Kone 3rd Generation
 

Several months before the original Kone was released, I had some coffees at Coava made with their pre -production version and Devin's brews were all the convincing I needed. Every once in a while I go back and try the old Melitta whites or a Melior press, but the Kone's results simply taste better to me.  

Even with the Kone-I, I'm getting almost zero sediment.  I think the improved versions probably each improve quality and usability with a progressively wider range of grinders.  I was happy enough that I passed on the second version and will probably do so on the third unless general opinion develops that I should taste a significant benefit.

Still, I'm glad that Coava/Able is continuing to build on experience and offer improvements.  The alternatives - wait years and years for real or imagined perfection, or refuse making enhancements altogether - don't make a lot of sense.  

And in a coffee culture where a "starter" espresso machine and grinder routinely runs past $1,000 - and upgrades well beyond that - a new Kone that costs half or a third the price of a high-end tamper or less than a couple of filter baskets, well, maybe at least we can agree that "outrageous" can be relative.
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BoldJava
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BoldJava
Joined: 2 Jun 2006
Posts: 1,537
Location: St Paul, MN
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: '82 Oly Cremina 67
Grinder: Macap MC4 Doserless Stepped
Vac Pot: Yamas
Drip: Hario, Beehouse, Cilio, Kone...
Roaster: RK Drum and Gene
Posted Thu Apr 26, 2012, 2:57am
Subject: Re: Kone 3rd Generation
 

TonyVan Said:

...

And in a coffee culture where a "starter" espresso machine and grinder routinely runs past $1,000 - and upgrades well beyond that - a new Kone that costs half or a third the price of a high-end tamper or less than a couple of filter baskets, well, maybe at least we can agree that "outrageous" can be relative.

Posted April 25, 2012 link

+1.  We let the auto manufacturers improve year after year at $25K a throw.  I had GEN 1 and sold it to a bud when GEN 2 hit the porch.  GEN 3?  I will be the first in line next week:$40 on the promo (all US materials and manufacture).

"... promo coming up when the Kone 3.0 launches in May, allowing brewers to pick up the new version directly through Able for $40. For the first month, the Kone 3.0 will be available exclusively through Able’s web-store..."   KONE news from Sprudge.com .

 
"On the trail for the goats' grail..."

Dave Borton
St Paul, MN
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aecletec
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2010
Posts: 195
Location: Australia
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Presso
Grinder: Faema A6
Drip: Chemex
Posted Thu Apr 26, 2012, 3:18am
Subject: Re: Kone 3rd Generation
 

BoldJava Said:

+1.  We let the auto manufacturers improve year after year at $25K a throw.  I had GEN 1 and willed it to my daughter when GEN 2 hit the porch.  GEN 3?  I will be the first in line.

$40 on the promo (all US materials and manufacture):

" promo coming up when the Kone 3.0 launches in May, allowing brewers to pick up the new version directly through Able for $40. For the first month, the Kone 3.0 will be available exclusively through Able’s web-store..."   KONE news from Sprudge.com .

Posted April 26, 2012 link

Espresso machine manufacturers do incremental improvements at large price points too. Perhaps if there was more openness i.e. "we calibrated the kone on x grinder" it would make more people happy? FWIW there were plenty of reviews around showing the amount of fines in the cup... caveat emptor and all that... I read many reviews before they were even available in my country!
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JPDyson
Senior Member
JPDyson
Joined: 12 Apr 2011
Posts: 417
Location: Durham, NC
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Virtuoso
Vac Pot: Yama tc5
Drip: V60, Bonmac, Chemex
Roaster: Behmor, Poppery II
Posted Thu Apr 26, 2012, 7:19am
Subject: Re: Kone 3rd Generation
 

History might serve us well here.

Keith has said that the first KONE was made for Coava to use, at their brew bar, where they happen to have Mazzers dialed in and first-hand knowledge of the appropriate techniques. We (the coffee nerds) begged and pleaded for a crack at this device - and we got what we asked for. Well, when we started brewing with it, we had mixed results - some attributable to approaching the brew the same way we would a Chemex pour-over (the "wrong" way for a KONE brew) and yes, to some extent, some because we were using less-consistent grinders that produced more fines. But make no mistake - it's demonstrable that pouring technique has a profound effect on the amount of sediment in the resulting brew. Pour gently, slowly, and dead-center only, and the cup is cleaner.

Now, if you fault them at the next step, I'm sorry - there's just no pleasing you: They listened to feedback and improved the product. Smaller holes, more appropriate material that retains its shape. Better brews at home were the result (again, when using the "right" technique) because the product was now more oriented toward the consumer market. But I doubt people are faulting them here, unless they just don't dig the KONE. I won't bother addressing people who are upset by a company offering a product they don't like.

Generation 3 is about iterative improvements, though arguably more nuanced (I believe the holes are tweaked again, and the tip is dulled, plus that somewhat goofy looking bumper). I can understand if you have Gen 2 that it's not a very compelling upgrade (or if you're still pleased by Gen 1). That's not hard to believe, and interestingly, the Apple comparison is very apt (though I wouldn't cast either in a negative light). Their own cycle is a kind of "TICK-tock" where a big upgrade is followed by a small tweak. You're of course welcome to jump into the cycle wherever you'd like -- or out of it. Vote with your wallet, if you will. But trashing a product that offers iterative improvements is just poorly thought out.

So, in a sense, I see where Evan is coming from, "defending" the KONE. As subjective as coffee enjoyment can be, if you put down a product because of a certain result, which from experience indicates that you were using it incorrectly, correction is appropriate. If I were to say that brewing coffee with an Aeropress resulted in sour, weak coffee, so the device must be junk, I'm sure I'd get a lot of posts indicating that the problem was not with the "M" I was attributing it to.

 
--Josh
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atarinaper
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 27
Location: San Jose, CA
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: LM Strada MP
Vac Pot: nope
Drip: Able Kones, Chemex, Fetco
Roaster: nope
Posted Thu Apr 26, 2012, 7:30pm
Subject: Re: Kone 3rd Generation
 

The Kone 3 looks like a nice device but I'm not sure how sold I am on the tip of it so far. I love the silicone ring around the edges, which will be perfect for shop use and for home use, no more denting and warping hopefully.

That being said, I've used the Kone 1 and 2 for quite a while. The Kone 1 I've used over and over for more than two years and have to say it's one of my favorite brew devices. I used it for brewers cup at the SWRBC this past year and found it to produce exceptionally beautiful cups. I used the Kone 2 this past weekend at USBC Brewers Cup and while I love the cleaner cup it produces, I almost think that the version 1 gives a softer, more balanced cup. But I do like both.

I started using the Kone more exclusively at home in the past month or two and have found that there isn't much difference in dialing in my Kone on a Mazzer Robur/ Kony(which is used for brewers cup) and the Baratza Virtuoso Precisio that I have at home. I can produce almost the exact same cup with either.

Once the Kone 3 drops next week, I'll be getting one and hopefully putting out a full comparison between the three devices. I'm extremely excited to dial all 3 in and hopefully shed some light on how I like them.
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