missy_ Senior Member Joined: 11 Apr 2012 Posts: 54 Location: Waiting for the next cup Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Mon Apr 16, 2012, 10:56pm Subject: Cold Brew or Hot Brew? Which one is the superior method?
As a relative beginner in the world of coffee, although I know a bit about water temperatures and whatnot, I find myself beginning to ask questions about the differences between hot brew methods and cold brew, and which is better.
The SCAA has several hot brew coffee machines it has given the nod to which brew within a range of temperature guidelines and brew times.
I'm wondering can any of you Coffee Geeks help me with why cold brew is not considered -- (or maybe indeed it is considered?) -- a legitimate contender in the world of coffee by such organizations as the SCAA? (And if it is, please forgive the error.)
Is one method, hot brew or cold brew, superior over the other?
Or are both methods just "different" from one another, with neither being superior?
Looking forward to your opinions. :)
Coffee, the finest organic suspension ever devised. -- Captain Janeway, Star Trek: Voyager
Posted Tue Apr 17, 2012, 4:14am Subject: Re: Cold Brew or Hot Brew? Which one is the superior method?
Missy,
Welcome.
Cold brew, simply stated, does not have the temperature required to extract the full flavor profile from the coffee. There are compounds which require several seconds of exposure to >170°F and even >185°F that cold brewing simply cannot extract.
Unlike sugar or salt (which will eventually dissolve in a solution at nearly any temperature where water is liquid), some of the coffee solubles actually require heat. Some of these compounds are similar to or actually are lipids (fats). Imagine trying to wash cold butter out of a mixture of sand with cold water vs. hot water (weird analogy, but it works visually).
Some of the compounds released by heat are an important part of the experience of coffee, because they are volatile oils and aromatic compounds. Without heat, the aroma component of tasting coffee is lost or significantly muted. Ever try to taste a nice meal with a cold? With brewed coffee, it's estimated that maybe 30%-50% of the experience is aromatic (not just tasting with your tongue).
This doesn't mean you'll get undrinkable coffee with cold brewing, it just means you won't get a full experience. On the upside of cold brewing, many of the fruity acids and acidic compounds are not extracted, so you end up with a less bright (or no brightness) cup of coffee. This means less acidity as well. Many people seem to perceive this as "smooth". You also won't draw out many of the bitter components, so smokiness and many of the less-desirable flavors are not present when cold brewed - just primarily that basic "coffee flavor".
Many of these flavors are due to the region where the coffee is grown (the varietal character) and also the hand of the roaster (how the coffee is roasted). Why go to the trouble of obtaining single origin coffee and then not experience all that a particular variety has to offer?
Hope that helps.
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
Posted Tue Apr 17, 2012, 8:44am Subject: Re: Cold Brew or Hot Brew? Which one is the superior method?
Yup, Netphilosopher pretty much hit the nail on the head. Sam over at Craft Coffee blogged about this recently, basically noting that because cold brew leaves so many things unextracted, it tends to make all coffees taste the same. Good if bulk consistency and smoothness is your goal, bad if you really want to taste the best the beans have to offer.
Posted Tue Apr 17, 2012, 10:21am Subject: Re: Cold Brew or Hot Brew? Which one is the superior method?
Keep in mind that cold brew is completely different than "flash brewed" or "Japanese Iced", where the coffee is BREWED hot at a higher-than-normal concentration directly onto ice. THAT'S really enjoyable stuff.
The other interesting thing to try is to cold brew coffee, but then take the spent grounds and hot brew them again. Make sure you're using a very high brew ratio (to get enough strength). Try this with a cold brewed Ethiopia Yirgacheffe... ;^D
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
missy_ Senior Member Joined: 11 Apr 2012 Posts: 54 Location: Waiting for the next cup Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Tue Apr 17, 2012, 11:03pm Subject: Re: Cold Brew or Hot Brew? Which one is the superior method?
Thank you, Netphilosopher and SoundGuyAndy for your responses and for the welcome. :) I learned a lot and I appreciate that!
I have always made iced coffee using hot brew at a higher-than normal concentrate, although I don't have any special equipment for doing so.
That blog post was interesting reading, SoundGuyAndy, and Netphilosopher, thank you for explaining the differences between cold brew and hot brew and cold brew and "flash brewed" or "Japanese Iced." :^)
Coffee, the finest organic suspension ever devised. -- Captain Janeway, Star Trek: Voyager
For budget options for "flash brew" I would think the pour-over Chemex is a good option as shown in the blog post (although I'd be afraid of cracking the Chemex; I'd rather add the ice later) ... or using a stronger concentrate in an electric drip brewer. Instructions for doing that are here: How to flash-brew iced coffee in your drip pot
Coffee, the finest organic suspension ever devised. -- Captain Janeway, Star Trek: Voyager
Posted Wed Apr 18, 2012, 4:41am Subject: Re: Cold Brew or Hot Brew? Which one is the superior method?
Missy, the links you provided are just a fancy way of doing cold brew coffee.
Most cold brew comments are "acid free", "smoother", "not harsh", "different flavor than any coffee", "reduced acidity", "low pH". These are basically code for "incomplete extraction."
and one of the articles he wrote that kicked off some discussion of the whole "cold" vs "hot", "brewing method" vs. "beverage state" and brewing iced coffee with an AeroPress: "Aeropress Iced Coffee"
I try and categorize the terms as follows, YMMV:
When the words "cold" and "brew" are put together, it's usually implied that the coffee is brewed at a low temperature (generally <100°F) for long period of time (hours).
When the words "iced" and "coffee" are together, this generally refers to how the coffee is consumed (cold consumption temperature, i.e. "over ice").
The distinction is that "cold brewed" coffee is usually considered to be a concentrate, stored cold, and it is most times consumed "hot" (take the concentrate out of the fridge and add hot water to desired strength).
"Iced Coffee" tends to be stronger-than-normal coffee that is put on ice and consumed cold. It could be created by cold brewing or by normal brewing (hot).
I consider the term "flash brewed" and more loosely "Japanese iced coffee" refer to Hot Brewed/Iced Coffee. It is stronger than normal coffee that is brewed hot but immediately cooled.
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
Posted Wed Apr 18, 2012, 5:10am Subject: Re: Cold Brew or Hot Brew? Which one is the superior method?
And, apparently my comments had a couple people not wanting to start a discussion but questioning how I know that cold brewing underextracts, asked via email.
We know that cold brew underextracts because if you use normal brewing parameters to cold brew coffee, you end up with weak coffee.
Cold brew 45g of coffee with 780g water, and you'll end up with very weak coffee.
Brew this same ratio normally (hot, like in my Melitta BCM-4 drip), and you get normal strength coffee.
The only difference here is the extraction, and is exactly why the normal recipes for cold brewed coffee have double or triple strength (or more) brew ratios. The difference in extraction is what is left behind with cold brewing.
The other advantage of cold brewing, btw, is since you haven't really extracted any of the volatiles or significant aromatics, concentrated cold brewed coffee stores remarkably well.
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
Sublime Senior Member Joined: 7 Feb 2005 Posts: 32 Location: Buford, GA Expertise: I love coffee
Grinder: Baratza Encore Drip: Falling apart Capresso
Posted Wed Apr 18, 2012, 6:57am Subject: Re: Cold Brew or Hot Brew? Which one is the superior method?
I wonder if it would be better to brew into an ice cream maker tub? That way all the water touches grounds (no ice to dillute).
I guess that's the question. If you use 45g of coffee with 780g of water into an ice walled container, will that give you better results than brewing 515g of water through 63g of coffee onto 264g of ice cubes.
Posted Wed Apr 18, 2012, 7:39am Subject: Re: Cold Brew or Hot Brew? Which one is the superior method?
BTW:
George Howell's recipe uses a 12.25% brew ratio (63g coffee : 515g hot brew water), and initially produces around 400-450g of ~2.3-2.5% strength. It goes onto 264g of ice, the initial pour melts about half the ice immediately and the initial consumption strength is around 1.8%. As the ice melts as you consume it, strength gradually reduces to around 1.6%. IF you were to wait for all of the ice to melt, the end strength ends up around 1.5%.
So, the question is "what strength do you want to consume iced coffee?"
Iced coffee that is 1.2% strength tastes pretty weak, even though hot at 1.2% is considered normal strength.
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
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