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Do you REALLY need to brew full capacity in a Siphon pot?
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johnnyb3
Senior Member


Joined: 29 Mar 2010
Posts: 189
Location: Anaheim, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Baratza Maestro Plus refurb
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos
Drip: Chemex
Posted Wed Apr 4, 2012, 5:12am
Subject: Re: Do you REALLY need to brew full capacity in a Siphon pot?
 

EvanOz85 Said:

Not to sound rude, but neither of your replies have any relevance to my question. The drawdown is not an issue. My question pertains to the dilution of the brew.

Posted April 2, 2012 link

You asked whether one could brew less than a full pot. My reply was
> I have gone down to a half batch with no discernible ill effects.
How does that lack relevance??
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VKirby
Senior Member


Joined: 16 Mar 2012
Posts: 99
Location: World Wide
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Wed Apr 4, 2012, 6:07am
Subject: Re: Do you REALLY need to brew full capacity in a Siphon pot?
 

EvanOz85 Said:

I'm not talking about brewing 12oz in a 40oz pot, but more like brewing say 16oz in a 24oz pot. Am I going to get too much dilution with that? Thanks!

Posted April 2, 2012 link

yakster Said:

Scott Rao in his book Everything But Espresso advises that you fill the lower chamber at least 2/3 full when using immersion times shorter than two minutes to ensure sufficient vacuum for a reliable draw-down.

Posted April 3, 2012 link

Hey that's the exact ratio OP's shooting for... time to roll the dice!
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JPDyson
Senior Member
JPDyson
Joined: 12 Apr 2011
Posts: 417
Location: Durham, NC
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Virtuoso
Vac Pot: Yama tc5
Drip: V60, Bonmac, Chemex
Roaster: Behmor, Poppery II
Posted Wed Apr 4, 2012, 9:17am
Subject: Re: Do you REALLY need to brew full capacity in a Siphon pot?
 

^^In other words, 16oz would be the minimum recommended amount for a 24oz model.

Try it; it probably won't be lethal.

 
--Josh
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EvanOz85
Senior Member
EvanOz85
Joined: 9 Jul 2011
Posts: 268
Location: Lafayette, LA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: Baratza Vario and Preciso
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos, Yama 5-cup
Drip: Chemex, Kone 3, Kalita Wave,...
Roaster: Hottop B, Behmor 1600
Posted Wed Jun 20, 2012, 7:44am
Subject: Re: Do you REALLY need to brew full capacity in a Siphon pot?
 

Bumping an old thread.

I used a Bodum Santos for over a year before purchasing a Yama 5-Cup. I purchased the 5-cup believing that the ratio of diluted water to coffee would be smaller, and since I mainly used the Santos for smaller amounts that this would be a better option.

However today it struck me to measure how much water was left in the bottom of each carafe once the water travels north just to see what kind of difference I was really getting.

Using a marker to mark the water levels on both pots after the rise, I then took them apart and filled the carafes with water to the lines I drew. I weighed them and much to my dismay the Yama left MORE water than the Santos!

Yama: 2.6oz
Bodum: 2.2oz

So now I feel a bit foolish for paying for the Yama at all..thinking it would yield a better cup. The Santos will always end up less diluted.
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CraigA
Moderator
CraigA
Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 11,264
Location: Rexdale, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: PID/PressureMod 2001...
Grinder: BUNN FPG-2 DBC, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos manual, Yama 5...
Drip: Behmor BraZen, BUNN VPR-APS,...
Roaster: Refurb Behmor 1600, BBQ...
Posted Wed Jun 20, 2012, 7:58am
Subject: Re: Do you REALLY need to brew full capacity in a Siphon pot?
 

EvanOz85 Said:

Yama: 2.6oz
Bodum: 2.2oz

So now I feel a bit foolish for paying for the Yama at all..thinking it would yield a better cup. The Santos will always end up less diluted.

Posted June 20, 2012 link

So just use a little more coffee to compensate for that difference..

 
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EvanOz85
Senior Member
EvanOz85
Joined: 9 Jul 2011
Posts: 268
Location: Lafayette, LA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: Baratza Vario and Preciso
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos, Yama 5-cup
Drip: Chemex, Kone 3, Kalita Wave,...
Roaster: Hottop B, Behmor 1600
Posted Wed Jun 20, 2012, 8:08am
Subject: Re: Do you REALLY need to brew full capacity in a Siphon pot?
 

CraigA Said:

So just use a little more coffee to compensate for that difference..

Posted June 20, 2012 link

You're missing the point. It is constantly claimed that you should brew smaller amounts in smaller vacpots due to the dilution ratio. I've just shown that the dilution ratio is LOWER in one of the larger pots, so the pot capacity rule is not really true in all cases.

And I'm still of the opinion that using more coffee to combat is pointless, since the mixture at the top should be more concentrated before making the trip south.
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CraigA
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CraigA
Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 11,264
Location: Rexdale, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: PID/PressureMod 2001...
Grinder: BUNN FPG-2 DBC, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos manual, Yama 5...
Drip: Behmor BraZen, BUNN VPR-APS,...
Roaster: Refurb Behmor 1600, BBQ...
Posted Wed Jun 20, 2012, 8:52am
Subject: Re: Do you REALLY need to brew full capacity in a Siphon pot?
 

I'm not missing the point & I know/hear what you're saying.

I've been using vac pots for 10 - 11 years & own the two pots you're talking about, in addition to about 15 more. Your remaining water amounts make sense, as I just a few minites ago measured the bottoms of the two pots.

The Santos bottom diameter is 4" versus 4" for the Yama. The diameters are greater farther up where the water line would be (more retained water) after the trip up North. The length/depth of the tube on the Yama is shorter also, resulting in more water in the bottom pot.


You Said: Yama: 2.6oz, Bodum: 2.2oz

 
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EvanOz85
Senior Member
EvanOz85
Joined: 9 Jul 2011
Posts: 268
Location: Lafayette, LA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: Baratza Vario and Preciso
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos, Yama 5-cup
Drip: Chemex, Kone 3, Kalita Wave,...
Roaster: Hottop B, Behmor 1600
Posted Wed Jun 20, 2012, 8:56am
Subject: Re: Do you REALLY need to brew full capacity in a Siphon pot?
 

I am not sure what you are saying?

The Santos leaves less water than the Yama using the same amount of coffee on top. I also did test just eying where the tube extends to on both pots, filling the water to JUST below that level, and weighing it. The Santos leaves less.

What does the trip North have to do with it?
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svyerkgeniiy
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 380
Location: New York City, NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: (-ish) Bialetti moka pot
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Vac Pot: Yama (large 8-cup)
Drip: Technivorm KBT; Clever...
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Wed Jun 20, 2012, 9:19am
Subject: Re: Do you REALLY need to brew full capacity in a Siphon pot?
 

One thing I have learned in my experience with coffee:  don't worry about "official" answers so much; the only thing that matters is if I like the resulting cup.  "There's extra water in the bottom... oh no!" "Water temps must be 195-205F!" "10g per 6oz of water!" etc. etc. etc., you hear.  Many of those dictums are made by people or groups who are supertasters (I am not), or by people who are splitting hairs in trying to find the best among many good choices.

The worry about this extra amount of water left in a siphon during the infusion is that it technically changes the ratio of brew water to grounds, and this can change the extraction.  Technically.  You either get a diluted optimal ratio brew, or a non-diluted non-optimal ratio brew.  I've never heard of anyone who tried with-vs-without in a double-blind test, but if you find one, let us know.  But this worry seems to me like an angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin type of thing.  For some people it may matter a lot; but for me there are too many variables in my coffee brewing so that type of thing gets lost in the noise.  I find joy instead in discovering what I like and making what I like happen.  I'd encourage the OP to experiment (say with marbles and without), and see if it matters to him.  If it doesn't, who cares... as long as he likes what he gets.  

I personally don't like acidic coffees-- so many Africans and even Central Americans are lost on me.  I can't distinguish fine nuances in Costa Rican vs. Brazilian.  Sometimes I don't have enough beans to cover the proper ratio for what I want to drink.  Sometimes I overroast, or the Behmor won't give me enough time.  My Aeropress temps are often below optimal-- GASP!  So what.  I gear what I make to what I like, and that's all I care about.

 
Donald Varona
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CraigA
Moderator
CraigA
Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 11,264
Location: Rexdale, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: PID/PressureMod 2001...
Grinder: BUNN FPG-2 DBC, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos manual, Yama 5...
Drip: Behmor BraZen, BUNN VPR-APS,...
Roaster: Refurb Behmor 1600, BBQ...
Posted Wed Jun 20, 2012, 9:23am
Subject: Re: Do you REALLY need to brew full capacity in a Siphon pot?
 

LOL!, yeah I don't let it worry me..  Evan, I just explained it another way (the trip up North) & remaining water is all, you explained it by filling up to where the water touches the bottom of each of the upper pots tubes, same thing..

 
http://twitter.com/CoffeegeekCraig
http://www.facebook.com/craig.andrews.169
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Excellent coffee doesn't just happen!
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