Posted Sun Oct 14, 2012, 9:10pm Subject: Re: Keurig - any insight on how they work?
Steve, seems I've found this thread a bit late--better than never!
Wearing another hat as a moderator over at www.singleservecoffeeforums.com (not a secret here, but still worth disclosing), I've had a chance to weigh many a k-cup. Here's a breakdown of what I've found, generally speaking, in case it might be useful; NB: the weights below are pre-brew averages with 4 grams subtracted for packaging (I admit I could have been more precise here instead of rounding to the nearest gram):
So I gather you're using your refractometer to test k-cup brew strength? I'm curious to see more of that, especially with the beefier k-cups. About those, from the "Starbucks" level on up they all contain small plastic discs supporting the filters. The discs make a negligible contribution to packaging weight, in my experience.
Not all k-cups contain dark-roasted coffee; get thee a light or medium roast, man!
Also, in case you aren't aware, Keurig has a newer machine out called the Vue that brews hotter (up to 197 degrees F) and has a "strong" setting with pulsed brewing that extends the water-coffee contact time.
Posted Mon Oct 15, 2012, 1:43pm Subject: Re: Keurig - any insight on how they work?
Not sure of the model - but cup with Newman's was around 1.15% strength, IIRC - for about 160g of coffee, it was a model that brewed 6, 8 and 10oz cup.
On the 10 cup setting, it takes a bit longer, but the strength was PITIFUL - around 0.71%-0.72% for 280ish g of brown water. The owner liked it - fairly dark, roasty flavors but weak for me (especially when my normal cup is between 1.25% and 1.4% strength).
My brother bought one, and after fussing with it for a week eventually returned it because it was weak coffee (he had a lower cost model - only made 8 and 10oz cup).
Assuming they were still around what I previously measured, 11g of coffee, this is definitely on the low end of "extraction".
Certainly a fair shot from the "gold cup" standards. LOL
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
acorn54 Senior Member Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 35 Expertise: Aficionado
Espresso: krups gusto Grinder: solis mulino. zassenhaus Drip: kitchen aid ultra compact Roaster: poppery ii. hw gourmet
Posted Fri Oct 19, 2012, 12:53pm Subject: Re: Keurig - any insight on how they work?
i think if you look at the wattage of one of those pod coffee makers you will see they are 500 watts or something. no way is the water temperature to brew the coffee grinds going to get hot enough for proper coffee extraction. the pod idea is just a gimmick to get consumers to pay more for a home made cup of coffee. i make coffee at home with my trusty kitchenaide 4- cup for 15 cents a cup using $8.80/lb jamaican blue mountain blend.
Posted Tue Oct 23, 2012, 5:27am Subject: Re: Keurig - any insight on how they work?
So, there's some variation in the Keurigs.
I just measured a "6oz" setting using the *$s Cafe Verona k-cup, 13g of coffee in the k-dup pod.
158.6g coffee produced, strength is 1.35%.
On the surface, that seems like decent strength, but TDS=2.14g, or 16.5% extraction.
this is in line with previous measurements I've made.
Now, I'm sure we could hack the machine to get it to extract better, but the user was using it on default setting for temperature, and the built-in pre-heat cycle was working (where it says "not ready" until the small reservoir tank comes up to temp).
My main concern is when you go to the 12 oz (about 320g yield) setting. If the machine magically reaches 22% extraction, that's still only 0.90% strength on 13g - and 13g is among the largest coffee load for the k-cups.
It's more likely that you'll get SOME more extraction by running more water through, but on the larger settings it still seems to be barely reaching 17.5%-18% extraction. This means that anything more than 8oz (about a true measuring cup English unit "cup" of coffee) will be weak. My personal, everyday mug is 375g.
This isn't magic, it's just math.
My conclusion: the the majority of k-cup brews underextract.
The good news is underextracted coffee begins to converge on basic taste - so find the most amount of coffee for the cheapest price you can (the *$s Cafe Verona at CostCo is about $0.50 per cup, for 13g) and don't worry about the name or type of coffee.
As for filling it with my own coffee - no thanks. I don't roast my own Ethiopia Sid to my own liking, grind it with an OE Lido and stick it in a machine that will underextract it. That's just too much work.
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
Posted Thu Apr 4, 2013, 5:01am Subject: Re: Keurig - any insight on how they work?
Keurig VUE
Has new capsules or pods, supposed to be "bigger, stronger, hotter".
The current keurigs max out at 13-14g of coffee only supports about a maximum of 3g extracted TDS (at 22% extraction, something very difficult for the Keurigs), providing for a cup of coffee ranging from a weak 1.1% 270g (9 fluid oz) or smaller.
Wanted to see if anyone has had a chance to look at the new Vue pods yet to see if they carry more coffee.
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
msboo Senior Member Joined: 10 Nov 2012 Posts: 105 Location: Kentucky Expertise: I love coffee
Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso Drip: Bonavita
Posted Sun Apr 7, 2013, 2:44pm Subject: Re: Keurig - any insight on how they work?
Our daughter and SIL have a Keurig type brewer, as do most their friends. They're young working parents, mornings are always a BIG hurry. I don't think they actually know what REAL coffee tastes like---didn't drink the stuff till a couple yrs ago, always rushed and just looking for hot caffeine.
Netphilosopher... agree. Stuck at their house w/o my coffee set-up, I tried their brewer but only at the 6oz cup AND using their SoloFill with their preferred DD preground----too weak, under-extracted, barely detectable coffee flavor. Of course too little contact time isn't the only negative here. I'm curious to try it with my fresh roasted beans but question what grind to use without choking it out THEN there's still no contact time based on 6oz cup setting. I now wonder how much, if any 'hot caffeine' they're actually getting! LOL
TEMPTED to try my 2 cup Sowden w/fresh grounds, set to 12oz capacity. I programmed their brewer to the MAX 192 degrees (when last there). There's plenty of room for the Sowden to fit properly.
Posted Mon Apr 8, 2013, 4:41am Subject: Re: Keurig - any insight on how they work?
msboo Said:
Our daughter and SIL have a Keurig type brewer, as do most their friends. They're young working parents, mornings are always a BIG hurry. I don't think they actually know what REAL coffee tastes like---didn't drink the stuff till a couple yrs ago, always rushed and just looking for hot caffeine.
Netphilosopher... agree. Stuck at their house w/o my coffee set-up, I tried their brewer but only at the 6oz cup AND using their SoloFill with their preferred DD preground----too weak, under-extracted, barely detectable coffee flavor. Of course too little contact time isn't the only negative here. I'm curious to try it with my fresh roasted beans but question what grind to use without choking it out THEN there's still no contact time based on 6oz cup setting. I now wonder how much, if any 'hot caffeine' they're actually getting! LOL
TEMPTED to try my 2 cup Sowden w/fresh grounds, set to 12oz capacity. I programmed their brewer to the MAX 192 degrees (when last there). There's plenty of room for the Sowden to fit properly.
Caffeine is extracted early in the brewing process.
Oh, they work on fresh coffee. Gave a friend 14.5g of personally roasted India Giri-Region (FC) in a K-cup, ground just coarser than espresso. Instructions to use smallest size, make sure the machine was fully pre-heated. They reported back that they had no idea coffee could taste THAT good - "smoothest, richest coffee I've ever had... can you give me more?"
Tellin' ya, good coffee is a gateway drug... LOL
The Sowden is like the Eva Solo, right? The one with the filter inside the brew chamber, keeps the brew coffee in the water until you pour the coffee? Or am I thinking of something else?
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
msboo Senior Member Joined: 10 Nov 2012 Posts: 105 Location: Kentucky Expertise: I love coffee
Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso Drip: Bonavita
Posted Mon Apr 8, 2013, 10:50am Subject: Re: Keurig - any insight on how they work?
Netphilosopher said: "Caffeine is extracted early in the brewing process".
They brew 10 and 12 oz cups THEREFORE brown tinted 'caffeine' water. LOL Well, at least they're getting their caffeine.
What you said about working on fresh coffee, I'll have to try just 'coarser than espresso' grind then do 6oz and see what happens.
Better yet, for them wanting 10-12oz I'm going to try my little Sowden 2 cup Oskar SoftBrew I picked up at Home Goods for $14.99. The Eva Solo, YES! Prima Coffee showed it's 3 different sizes on YouTube---when I saw it I realized Home Goods had several of those sitting on the same coffee display where I found the Sowden, I looked at it wondering what the heck it was. The size was maybe 1 Liter, selling for 39.99 (I think). I'm not that familiar w/Eva Solo but from the looks of the filter you definitely need to grind for FP. The Sowdens can use a finer grind w/o leaving much silt in the bottom.
YES, Sowden is like Eva Solo in that it's full immersion----Sowden filters are 'micro', therefore finer grinds can be used. I haven't tried it yet but will soon at home AND at daughters' in her Cuisinart Keurig machine.
Going to Macy's today so will look for the VUE, see their pods capacity.
twanhines Junior Member Joined: 2 Apr 2013 Posts: 2 Location: usa Expertise: I live coffee
Drip: keurig special edition
Posted Wed Apr 10, 2013, 11:46am Subject: Re: Keurig - any insight on how they work?
I have a keurig special ediition that uses the k-cups. I have found that it really depends on the k-cup flavor used how strong the coffee taste is. For instance, I have brewed some of folgers K-cup coffee, and it is sickeningly strong! I mean its strong to the point that it literally stinks and horrible to drink. And then I've tasted other k-cups where it was just too weak to the point where I'd rather just drink hot water lol. But the coffee flavor(s) that i've found to taste the best is the Eight O'clock dark italian roast coffee and Emeril's big easy bold coffee. Those two are strong enough to bite you while not overly strong. I also found that with brewing your own coffee, you can use the "My K-cup", which i personally have. At first I use to wonder why my coffee tasted so stinking weak, then i read an article that talked about how the k-cups are put together and that the grounds are finely grounded. So then I tried it again with finely grounded coffee and it came out pretty decent. Here is the article link if anyone is interested. http://fixthatkeurig.com/?q=node/50 Not a lot going on there on that forum, but that article made sense to me.
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