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Choosing a brewing method for my coffee shop
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marcelnyo
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 12
Location: Indonesia
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: Baratza Maestro
Roaster: Poperry II
Posted Mon Jul 19, 2010, 10:18pm
Subject: [ASK] Choosing a brewing method for my coffee shop
 

Hi,

As you can see in http://coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/488646

I own a small coffee shop, but I long for a great quality coffee to sell to my customers.

I have finally bought a baratza maestro for the purpose of giving my customers the freshest coffee available, but right now I'm getting way ahead of myself, I am, if I'm already thinking of buying an espresso machine.

there are different brewing methods available that promises a variety of great quality cup, but right now I'm stuck with my french(chinese) press method which you can look at in my malaysian coffee-o thread above, I'm thinking of buying an espresso machine at first but I think it's way outside my budget, and plus the baratza maestro isn't really cut out to grind for continuous espresso fineness.

can any of you please suggest a way that is faster, and produce an exceptional cup? moka pot maybe? I always have boiling water available when my coffee shop is open, but since I don't have a pot, and investing in a good one will be a fortune at this time, so I think I'll wait until I get a better way of brewing, or I'll stick to my chinese press method.

this way, every cup of coffee (or brew batch) will have to wait at least 7 minutes, 1 minutes grinding and dosing, 4 minutes brew, and 1 minutes preheating, pressing and getting the coffee ready for serving.

Thanks.
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JKalpin
Senior Member
JKalpin
Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Posts: 794
Location: Thornhill, Ontario Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Aerobie Aeropress
Grinder: Baratza Maestro Plus
Vac Pot: Yama 5-Cup
Drip: Krups Moka Brew, BraZen
Roaster: Freshroast+8, Behmor 1600
Posted Tue Jul 20, 2010, 3:39am
Subject: Re: [ASK] Choosing a brewing method for my coffee shop
 

You must tell us more ...!!

This terrible coffee you described, is that what your customers want, or do they want 'good' coffee as we know it elsewhere?

Do you have a lot of customers, or just a few?  How many per hour at your busy time?

 
Jerry
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wbaguhn
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wbaguhn
Joined: 16 Feb 2009
Posts: 980
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Ponte Vecchio Lusso
Grinder: Cunill Tranquilo, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Cory DR
Drip: Vietnamese gadget, AeroPress
Roaster: Behmor
Posted Tue Jul 20, 2010, 4:44am
Subject: Re: [ASK] Choosing a brewing method for my coffee shop
 

If your customers want "Coffee O", keep it on the menu.

It sounds like your operation must proceed on small, incremental improvements and investments.

Have you considered a cold extraction process?  It sounds like it would be well suited to your available coffee, and require minimal equipment.  The problem is, it takes a long time - 12 to 24 hours - to make the coffee concentrate - this must be done in advance.  An advantage is that the service proceeds more quickly - measure the concentrated coffee, add hot water, present it to the customer.

Moderately coarse ground coffee, in a container.  Add cold water to cover the coffee, enough so that it will remain covered when it swells (I believe a little over 2 L for a half kilo of ground coffee is right).  Let this soak overnight, then filter how you like - a muslin bag would work fine.

Mix this prepared strong coffee with hot water when serving - adjust the ratio to taste.  


Marketing will be a challenge - Perhaps if someone orders a coffee O, you prepare it for them, and also ask if they would give their opinion on a different style of coffee.
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CoffeeRoastersClub
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CoffeeRoastersClub
Joined: 6 Jul 2005
Posts: 4,472
Location: Connecticut
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vintage La Pavoni Lever...
Grinder: Breville Smartgrind,...
Vac Pot: Vintage Silex, Nicro...
Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster...
Roaster: javaPRO-CRC AIR Fluid Bed...
Posted Tue Jul 20, 2010, 7:02am
Subject: Re: [ASK] Choosing a brewing method for my coffee shop
 

marcelnyo Said:

Hi,

As you can see in http://coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/488646

I own a small coffee shop, but I long for a great quality coffee to sell to my customers.

I have finally bought a baratza maestro for the purpose of giving my customers the freshest coffee available, but right now I'm getting way ahead of myself, I am, if I'm already thinking of buying an espresso machine.

there are different brewing methods available that promises a variety of great quality cup, but right now I'm stuck with my french(chinese) press method which you can look at in my malaysian coffee-o thread above, I'm thinking of buying an espresso machine at first but I think it's way outside my budget, and plus the baratza maestro isn't really cut out to grind for continuous espresso fineness.

can any of you please suggest a way that is faster, and produce an exceptional cup? moka pot maybe? I always have boiling water available when my coffee shop is open, but since I don't have a pot, and investing in a good one will be a fortune at this time, so I think I'll wait until I get a better way of brewing, or I'll stick to my chinese press method.

this way, every cup of coffee (or brew batch) will have to wait at least 7 minutes, 1 minutes grinding and dosing, 4 minutes brew, and 1 minutes preheating, pressing and getting the coffee ready for serving.

Thanks.

Posted July 19, 2010 link

You may wish to consider a pourover setup where you can do multiple pourovers at once.

Len

 
"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674

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TheMummaFamily
Senior Member


Joined: 18 Mar 2008
Posts: 992
Location: somewhere, out there
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Grimac Zola II 3 group &...
Grinder: Mazzer Major, Pasquini H269
Vac Pot: We wish.  Aeropress though.
Drip: Technivorm
Roaster: Corretto=HG/BM
Posted Tue Jul 20, 2010, 7:15am
Subject: Re: [ASK] Choosing a brewing method for my coffee shop
 

Seems like maybe Aeropress might work...is it a bit faster than what was quoted?  

Here is a pic of a multiple pourover setup:
Click Here (www.flickr.com)

Here is a thread that might interest you for a better idea of how it works:
Click Here (coffeegeek.com)

Hope this helps and yes, tell us more!


Maybe even an Aeropress bar...

 
"Three of the four elements are variable, but the fourth one has to be adaptable, knowledgeable and intuitive."  Mark Prince Click Here (www.coffeegeek.com)
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marcelnyo
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 12
Location: Indonesia
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: Baratza Maestro
Roaster: Poperry II
Posted Tue Jul 20, 2010, 3:03pm
Subject: Re: [ASK] Choosing a brewing method for my coffee shop
 

JKalpin Said:

You must tell us more ...!!

This terrible coffee you described, is that what your customers want, or do they want 'good' coffee as we know it elsewhere?

Do you have a lot of customers, or just a few?  How many per hour at your busy time?

Posted July 20, 2010 link

Yes, excuse me for the very short post, I was helping my wife's catering business and I'm very exhausted.

I generally think that my customers are poorly educated on what coffee tastes really are, I was fortunate enough to have some experience in bigger cities where they use arabica and really nice blends to produce their espresso, thus made me my way through coffee education from various websites.

But my customers are of the mid to high class workers and businessman, so I would think that if I offer them better coffee than what they're drinking right now, they wouldn't mind because they'd think that it is better than what they use to drink in the regular coffee shops that never really cared about how the real taste of good coffee is.

I have some of customers that drinks coffee regularly, on my busiest day I can make over 20 cups an hour, I'm planning to do more though, after all, who doesn't want a crowded shop every time?

TheMummaFamily Said:

Seems like maybe Aeropress might work...is it a bit faster than what was quoted?  

Here is a pic of a multiple pourover setup:
Click Here (www.flickr.com)

Here is a thread that might interest you for a better idea of how it works:
Click Here (coffeegeek.com)

Hope this helps and yes, tell us more!


Maybe even an Aeropress bar...

Posted July 20, 2010 link

Hi, from what I've read in some local coffee forums, the aeropress is very hard to get in my country, and I don't have any experienced whatsoever with them, please excuse my very limited knowledge.

Although I've found that the multiple pourover setup is very similar to what I can get here in Indonesia, I think you'll get what I'm saying if I speak with pictures, so I'll take a few and upload it right away.

But do you know where can I get the exact information on how they brew the coffee on every cup? if that method can produce exceptional quality coffee, I wouldn't think once of buying an espresso machine with my budget, is there an online resource to this multiple pourover brew method?

I'll only need about 90ml of thick warm coffee and I can always add another 100ml of boiling hot water into it to keep it how enough when it reaches my customers.

wbaguhn Said:

If your customers want "Coffee O", keep it on the menu.

It sounds like your operation must proceed on small, incremental improvements and investments.

Have you considered a cold extraction process?  It sounds like it would be well suited to your available coffee, and require minimal equipment.  The problem is, it takes a long time - 12 to 24 hours - to make the coffee concentrate - this must be done in advance.  An advantage is that the service proceeds more quickly - measure the concentrated coffee, add hot water, present it to the customer.

Moderately coarse ground coffee, in a container.  Add cold water to cover the coffee, enough so that it will remain covered when it swells (I believe a little over 2 L for a half kilo of ground coffee is right).  Let this soak overnight, then filter how you like - a muslin bag would work fine.

Mix this prepared strong coffee with hot water when serving - adjust the ratio to taste.  


Marketing will be a challenge - Perhaps if someone orders a coffee O, you prepare it for them, and also ask if they would give their opinion on a different style of coffee.

Posted July 20, 2010 link

Hi, Yup you got a correct understanding on how my businesss and financial situation currently is, I have some curiousity about the cold extraction process, but after reading from several forums, it is said that it reapes the coffee from it's very thick masculinity, although I don't have any experience with the cold brew, I think I'd prefer hot water method more.

And my customers would believe anything that looks like coffee O, served in a classic ceramic glass of coffee O, is coffee O! :)
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wbaguhn
Senior Member
wbaguhn
Joined: 16 Feb 2009
Posts: 980
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Ponte Vecchio Lusso
Grinder: Cunill Tranquilo, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Cory DR
Drip: Vietnamese gadget, AeroPress
Roaster: Behmor
Posted Tue Jul 20, 2010, 3:31pm
Subject: Re: [ASK] Choosing a brewing method for my coffee shop
 

The beauty of the cold water method is that you can prepare it in anything to test - no special equipment to purchase.  When I am asked to prepare coffee to flavor baked goods (like cookies), this is the method I use - I put some coffee in a jar, cover with cold water, wait 24 hours, and filter.

The concentrate - the strong coffee it produces - is generally mixed with hot water, to thin it to a more enjoyable consistency.

Many shops here use this method for some of their specialty iced coffees, rather than making espresso or hot water brewed coffee to prepare these drinks.



On the multiple drip bars, generally people grind the coffee, put the paper filter in the holder, put the coffee in the filter, then stand over the setup pouring water slowing for 3-4 minutes.  It is very labor intensive, and does not allow you to work on other tasks, as a press pot would as it steeps.
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marcelnyo
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 12
Location: Indonesia
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: Baratza Maestro
Roaster: Poperry II
Posted Tue Jul 20, 2010, 3:33pm
Subject: Re: [ASK] Choosing a brewing method for my coffee shop
 

Hi again,

I've failed to notice that the cones were called the v60, although it looks considerably faster than the french press method, it does require a finer grind, am I mistaken? and it also uses disposable paper filters, which I think would considerably raise my coffee's price, if I can get the v60 cone, will a washable muslin bag be good enough? but the washing with hot water tech for every bag would leave it wet before every pour.

I've looked for v60 plastic coffee cones on ebay, and I've found that they sell for 15$ each, not to mention the freight package to indonesia will mostly cost $20 for a small item, suddenly buying a moka pot looks a lot cheaper :(

I'm going to take pictures of my brewing stuff later, I'm currently waiting for my water to boil.
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marcelnyo
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 12
Location: Indonesia
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: Baratza Maestro
Roaster: Poperry II
Posted Tue Jul 20, 2010, 3:39pm
Subject: Re: [ASK] Choosing a brewing method for my coffee shop
 

wbaguhn Said:

The beauty of the cold water method is that you can prepare it in anything to test - no special equipment to purchase.  When I am asked to prepare coffee to flavor baked goods (like cookies), this is the method I use - I put some coffee in a jar, cover with cold water, wait 24 hours, and filter.

The concentrate - the strong coffee it produces - is generally mixed with hot water, to thin it to a more enjoyable consistency.

Many shops here use this method for some of their specialty iced coffees, rather than making espresso or hot water brewed coffee to prepare these drinks.



On the multiple drip bars, generally people grind the coffee, put the paper filter in the holder, put the coffee in the filter, then stand over the setup pouring water slowing for 3-4 minutes.  It is very labor intensive, and does not allow you to work on other tasks, as a press pot would as it steeps.

Posted July 20, 2010 link

I think so, but since my grinder has just arrived, I would start to taste how my chinese press method tastes with freshly grinded coffee, and I have to compare it with the cold brew method, in some forums, they really detest the cold brew method for some reason, I'm not an experience and won't argue on that, but I think I'll try the cold brew method for tommorrow's coffee testing.

and yes, the v60 method is very labor intensive since it requires a consistent slow pour over the filters, I have to multitask in several chores other than coffee, and right now the chinese press seems good enough, except for the steep brew time.
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marcelnyo
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 12
Location: Indonesia
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: Baratza Maestro
Roaster: Poperry II
Posted Tue Jul 20, 2010, 11:40pm
Subject: Re: [ASK] Choosing a brewing method for my coffee shop
 

Hi Again,

I haven't got the time to take pictures yet, so hectic in the shop today, thank God.

meanwhile, I've been around reading about cold brew method, and I've found some opinions about robusta beans being better tasting at cold brew method, and as the coffeegeek fact says, robusta beans are used for a sole purpose, which is saving money, while getting a mediocre quality coffee at that, but the indonesian tounge, especially this small town of mine, are very used to the bland taste and strong aroma of the robusta, which I think would give the edge to the cold brewing method.

one question though, will the coffee taste any different if I use pre-ground coffee rather than freshly ground ones? and on a website something like this is written

Reasons to NOT Cold Brew

   * Press Pot and Espresso fans. Fans of the coffee oils may find the flavor weaker and less interesting.
   * Small batch Home Roasters. The Toddy works best with a full pound of coffee. For home roasters, this can be a lot of roasting (and grinding) to do at one time.

I bought a conical burr grinder specifically to produce coffee with lots of coffee oils on top of it when it reaches the customer's table, this alone is one of the reason not to cold brew.
And my burr grinder only holds 250gr of coffee beans even with a full hopper, the coffee grounds will be oxidized the time I grind the second batch of 250gr to complete the 1 pound requirement.

anyone knows how an aeropress would give faster and better results?
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