Posted Sun Nov 9, 2008, 8:50pm Subject: Re: Plastic Coffee Maker/ Cups ? Beware!
The issue of BPA is real. Awareness of the problem is mainly snuffed by the plastics industry. ....like so many issues today where money and industry are at odds with science.
yes Frost you are so right,and maybe apathy and outright denial by the general public also play a part,dont ya think? Some of the posts so far are sure fire testament to this. Anyhow I just made another 20 minute coffee today,this time with my glass bodum to see if I could detect any fould odor from the plastic filter. After doing this,all I will say is I am now ready for a metal filter for sure. Anyone who tries this with a filter which is partly plastic will see what I mean. If you dont agree your sense of smell must be dull to say the least. I then made another regular 3 min coffee ,with the filter resting on top of the coffee,because that is what I used to do just to be ready when I wanted to plunge the filter,and because its nice to have the lid on in case I knock it over while Im working at my desk. Anyhow the odor wasnt as noticeable,but it was still evident. I would probably be very aware of it from now on if I keep using it,since I have experienced the full force of this disgusting smell,and even a bit is too much for me .It would also be a reminder of all the terrible things I have read about BPA and other toxins . I have no idea how badly this s#@t has already affected me and my loved ones so Im planning to be icomitted to this for the long haul.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjYn-HwDQns Everyone should check out this 5 part series regarding toxins effects on male birth rate and fertility, including a whole lot of info about plastics and BPA. Its done by the great Canadian documentary producers the CBC. The link is just for the first part but the others are on the page to right.Be sure to see the great comments below the vids.
"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more..." -King Henry V, from Shakespeare's Henry V, Act III
Look, stephenk, I'm not trying to trivialize anything here. I actually agree with you WRT to the perils of plastics, & said as much in my 2nd post (when I said I wasn't as comfortable using plastic as I am using stainless). Your 1st post only mentioned BPA with no reference to the type of plastics in question. That alone was the reason for my initial response.
I hadn't actually thought of it, but steven_meyer's comment got me thinking about the likelihood of your scenario. Water boils at 212°F. PC melts at 310°F. You physically can't melt PC with hot water. That means something else is going on with your press pot. Certain solvents will soften and/or liquify PC. Some solvent fumes are strong enough to do the same. Perhaps you are simply on the receiving end of an unfortunate accident (or bad prank).
My comments regarding what to use while commuting were to illustrate how your beverage container can do more harm by taking your attention off of driving. If you're fumbling around trying to balance a hot or unstable ceramic mug while negotiating roads & traffic, then you're much more likely to get killed in an auto accident than from any miniscule amount of plastic decay. As I said before, I'd rather use something else than my insulated plastic mug, but there's no safer compromise available to me at this time.
I briefly touched on the health & environmental aspects of your (& our) decisions. Making a dubiously "safer" choice in one area can lead to wider-spead health issues in other areas. Choosing disposable cups over reusable ones, for example. Or generating tons of pollution by unnecessarily shipping tons of water all over the world. Or trying to avoid one toxic plastic compound & instead ingesting a different heavy metal toxin. I won't go into all of that here, but keep in mind that no choice is without risk.
While you're doing your research into plastics, please also research drinking water. Yes, tap water in First World countries is safe to drink. "Perfectly safe" would be a relative assessment, along the same lines as saying "all food-safe plastics are perfectly safe." ;-) Chemicals like chlorine & ammonia are added to municipal water systems to keep pathogen levels in check. Transite pipe (those big, oval water main lines) have, historically, been formed of concrete with an asbestos filler. Bottled waters are not required to conform to the same minimum quality standards as tap water. You can see where I'm going here, right?
Solid carbon block water filtration systems are the safest & most reliable systems available. Reverse-osmosis systems are water wasteful, require regular replacement of the filter membrane, & can actually concentrate some toxins & heavy metals (e.g., mercury & aluminum) in your drinking water. Distillation units are energy wasteful, require regular cleaning, & will co-distill (& concentrate) the numerous toxins that have vapor temperatures lower than water's. Try a simple block carbon filter for a year & then try drinking either tap or bottled water again.
Obviously, something's going on with your plastic press pot. I can't say what it might be, but it's not related to normal use. Again, my point with all of this is not to minimize your concerns. My point is to try & clear some of the confusion in your initial post regarding BPA contamination, & to let you know that other things might, just maybe, be more important to worry about. If you think your biggest concern is your cup, then, perhaps, you're not informed enough.
"Just what I need - another 'geek' label..." - my friend Mark, on being told of Coffee Geek's existence
"Of course, all of this plastic transfer paranoia is of small concern compared to the quality of water you're starting out with. If you're not filtering with solid carbon block (binds all organic compounds with no waste, energy, co-distillation or toxin concentration issues) then the container you're using is the least of your concerns"
With talk like this I am wondering if you could be somebody from a plastics company just here to diffuse the issue by using the water as the perfect distraction. If you were seriously concerned about consuming plastics in your coffee you wouldnt be talking like this. The plastics company know that their product is seriously affecting peoples health even killing people,so if they can get people to feel helpless,or even make them think that they are making the best choice using their product over others than they have won regardless if some people have occasional concerns.If you arent from a plastics company then you are certainly doing a good job for them anyway. As far as driving with a coffee,I dont drive so I dont have to deal with this issue. If you were seriously concerened about driving safely you wouldnt be driving around drinking a coffee anyhow so dont give me this shallow reason. Also you still have yet to make your case why water is so much worse than plastics leeched into food/coffee .You have said a few things about water that I already knew ,although I may decide to try the filter you mentioned,since I am not convinced that tap water is perfectly safe either. I know that spring water usually tastes better,except for the few brands with a slightly plastic taste from the bottle,but I dont buy those anymore. I am aware there may still be some contamination in the brands that I drink,but I cerrtainly dont smell anything wrong and it tastes fine to me. The plastic taste /smell from the bodum was far worse however,and therefore far more concerning especially in light of the stat I discovered about how heat can leech plastic into liquids 55 times faster than normal. This is why I think everyone consuming hot drinks made or consumed with plastic containers should be most vigilant. If we as a consumer group dont care then who will?
yeah whatever,anyhow another way to get a good idea of what this plastic stuff is doing to your coffee is to smell the filter after pouring your coffee and it has cooled down in the bodom. You should be able to notice a seriously awful plastic chemical smell. That is because it has been leeched into a very condensed form with the wet grinds while it was hot. I think that Bodum should at least put a warning on their plastic bodums or ones with plastic filters...something like "prolonged exposure of plastic filter to hot coffee could result in infertility, brain damage,and other health problems ,as well as awful smelling and tasting coffee!"
Im not sure paslug, Im quite new to this plastic leaching issue. Maybe if you mention what kind of coffeemaker you have someone who has one can answer this question. Better yet maybe you could just get another one with all glass and metal construction. If you have read the info I provided,or provided links to ,I would certainly hope you would at least be considering this. I also hope that you and everyone checking out this thread will take the time to watch the video on you tube I added a link for earlier. Maybe its partly because I am Canadian and proud of the CBC expose docs since they are always very compelling and well produced ,but I also believe in fate ,and this show aired on tv just a few days after I got started on this whole topic. The next day I found it on youtube. Therefore I definitely feel a sense of duty to make others aware of it if I can and what better place than here ,where I am doing my best to make my case for this very serious issue.
F451 Senior Member Joined: 18 Aug 2008 Posts: 73 Location: Southern California Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sat Nov 15, 2008, 8:03pm Subject: Re: Plastic Coffee Maker/ Cups ? Beware!
Eiron Said:
One of the main reasons why I bought my Technivorm drip brewer is because of its food-friendly construction (copper boiler & stainless thermal carafe).
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