stephenk Senior Member Joined: 8 Nov 2008 Posts: 26 Location: Toronto Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Sat Nov 8, 2008, 5:26pm Subject: Plastic Coffee Maker/ Cups ? Beware!
I broke my glass bodum a few weeks ago,so I decided to get a plastic model,since they were out of the glass ones anyhow. I thought it would be ok since it is hard plastic,and bodum is a good name in the french press industry I figured. Anyhow I wasnt too impressed with the taste at first ,but I guess I just got used to it. Anyhow yesterday I was making my coffee and walked away,forgetting about it after having a conversation I had with someone. Maybe 20 mins later I poured it into my cup,and it was still warm so I decided to drink it. After taking a mouthful I became aware of how bad it tasted and smelled. Then I had a really good whiff ,and thought my god this is the worst smelling stuff I have ever put into my mouth. After emptying my cup I noticed a small object stuck at the bottom,scraped it up with my finger and noticed it looked like a piece of soft translucent plastic. This was of course quite shocking to me,and I went back to the store I got it and told them about it. They said they never heard of this happening. Anyhow I got another glass one since they now had them in stock. I have just been checking the net to find out more about the effects of plastic especially combined with heated liquids . The following info is from the first site that I found . I realize that my glass bodum still has a bit of plastic in the filter,but it will have to do until I get one from starbucks. I am sure it must be far better than the plastic bodum I was using:
Don’t Put Your Coffee in Plastic Cups September 11, 2008
The amount of dangerous bisphenol A (BPA) that leaches from plastic bottles into the drinks they contain is most dependent on the liquid’s temperature, according to new research. When both new and used polycarbonate drinking bottles were exposed to boiling hot water, BPA was released 55 times more rapidly.
BPA an endocrine disruptor which mimics your body’s natural hormones. Hormones serve different functions throughout your body. BPA has been shown to affect reproduction and brain development.
The increased release of BPA continued even after the hot liquid was removed, meaning that even washing plastic cups or bottles in a hot dishwasher could lead to increased BPA content in cold drinks.
Dr. Mercola’s Comments:
According to a Centers for Disease Control (CDC) study, BPA was detected in the urine of 95 percent of the people tested. Scientists have also measured BPA in the blood, umbilical cord and placenta of pregnant women, finding all were at levels that have demonstrated altered fetal development in animals.
Clearly, our widespread use and reliance on the convenience of plastic products is now catching up with us.
Fortunately, the reality is starting to hit home, and changes can be seen here and there. One large Canadian retailer decided to remove the wildly popular Nalgene plastic water containers from their stores, for example, due to concerns about BPA.
What’s the Problem With BPA?
BPA mimics the sex hormone estradiol (estrogen), which can trigger major changes in your body. Of 115 published animal studies, 81 percent found significant effects from even low-level exposure to BPA.
Interestingly enough, NONE of the 11 industry-funded studies found any significant effects, whereas 90 percent of the government-funded studies did. Yet another piece of “coincidental evidence” that shows the power of money. Always check who funded the study before drawing your final conclusions about the results.
According to the Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy’s Smart Plastics Guide, adverse effects from BPA exposure include:
Structural damage to your brain Hyperactivity, increased aggressiveness, and impaired learning Increased fat formation and risk of obesity Altered immune function Early puberty, stimulation of mammary gland development, disrupted reproductive cycles, and ovarian dysfunction Changes in gender-specific behavior, and abnormal sexual behavior Stimulation of prostate cancer cells Increased prostate size, and decreased sperm production Who’s at Greatest Risk?
According to Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy, the sharpest warning goes out to women of childbearing age. Early-life exposure can lead to genetic damage, as BPA causes chromosomal errors at even low levels.
These chromosomal errors in the developing fetus can also lead to spontaneous miscarriages.
BPA caught researchers’ attention after normal mice began to display uncommon genetic abnormalities. The defects were linked to plastic cages and water bottles that had been cleaned with a harsh detergent, causing BPA to leach out of the plastic. After determining how much BPA the mice had been exposed to, they realized that even an extremely small dose of 20 parts per billion daily, for just five to seven days, was enough to produce effects.
Heat Releases More Toxin
The problem with BPA is that it doesn’t stay put in the plastic. It leeches into whatever food or beverage you put in a plastic container, canned goods, or plastic baby bottle.
And if you microwave the containers or bottles, or put hot liquids or foods into them, you increase the amount of BPA that leaches into your food or drink 55 times faster than when used cold!
Hopefully that’s enough food for thought to help you decide it’s time to switch that plastic coffee mug you lug around to something else.
Eiron Senior Member Joined: 12 Nov 2007 Posts: 194 Location: Loveland, Colorado Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Quick Mill 0930 Grinder: Quick Mill 031, Solis 166 Drip: Technivorm KBTS Roaster: frying pan & wooden spatula
Posted Sun Nov 9, 2008, 12:57am Subject: Re: Plastic Coffee Maker/ Cups ? Beware!
This info regarding BPA is specific to polycarbonate (PC) plastic. Many clear/translucent beverage containers are made of this plastic. Check the bottom of your beverage container for the plastic identifier mark to determine if it's made of PC or something else.
Since the release of this info several years ago, many manufacturers have switched to SAN plastic (like the Bodum plastic travel press I have). Not that I think a styrene-based plastic is any better to steep hot beverages in...
Any plastic (whether it's PC, SAN, PE, PS, ABS, etc) is going to transfer something to a liquid, & hot liquids always accelerate the process. The best materials to use are uncoated glass & stainless steel. Ceramics can contain heavy metals in their glazes if they're made in a country which does not regulate their use (like China).
Of course, sometimes there's no better option currently available than a well-insulated plastic cup. What's a well-intentioned environmentalist to do? Consider it as "taking one for the good of the planet" until an acceptable replacement is made...
"Just what I need - another 'geek' label..." - my friend Mark, on being told of Coffee Geek's existence
stephenk Senior Member Joined: 8 Nov 2008 Posts: 26 Location: Toronto Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Sun Nov 9, 2008, 5:53am Subject: Re: Plastic Coffee Maker/ Cups ? Beware!
My bodum says PC at the bottom. I will never be using that one again thats for sure but you probably figured that after my first post. "Take one for the good of the planet" ? Im not sure how I want to respond to that one this early in the morning.I think I will have to think about it over my second ceramic mug of coffee made from my new glass bodum. My mug has Canada in big letters on the side ,and has a sticker underneath with a distribution company in Calgary,but since I bought it in Chinatown,I will have to check with the distributer the country of origin. Is this the only danger regarding ceramics and glazes? I hope so anyhow.
Eiron Senior Member Joined: 12 Nov 2007 Posts: 194 Location: Loveland, Colorado Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Quick Mill 0930 Grinder: Quick Mill 031, Solis 166 Drip: Technivorm KBTS Roaster: frying pan & wooden spatula
Posted Sun Nov 9, 2008, 10:16am Subject: Re: Plastic Coffee Maker/ Cups ? Beware!
I was being somewhat tongue-in-cheek...
One of the main reasons why I bought my Technivorm drip brewer is because of its food-friendly construction (copper boiler & stainless thermal carafe).
I guess what I was trying to say is that, while everyone needs to make their own choices about food contact issues, there are some situations where the cure might be worse than the disease. Let me use my own situation as an example:
Every day that I drive to work, I make myself either an 8oz breve or a 12oz drip coffee for my hour's commute. I've tried about six different plastic and/or stainless thermal mugs & one stainless-lined plug-in warmer. The two items that work best are my 10oz Stanley/Aladdin insulated PE plastic mug & the plug-in warmer.
Unfortunately, the plug-in has to be carefully hand washed due to its lack of waterproofness. This has led me to use paper cups (with PS plastic caps) as drop-in inserts with it. Paper has its own issues with bleaching chemicals (dioxin anyone?) leaching into beverages. So now I'm throwing away lots of cups & caps. And the plug cord hangs across the shifter (unsafe!). And my car (Swedish) has no cup holders, making the tall & top-heavy warmer either a spilling hazard or an access problem (also unsafe!).
By contrast, the PE plastic mug is reusable & squat enough to sit calmly on my center console. And after 10 months of use I get no plastic smell or taste. Am I as comfortable using it as I am with stainless? Absolutely not! I know it's transferring something to my coffee, even if I can't tell. But until I can find a better option it's the item I'll choose to use.
I have found a stainless version of my travel press (which I use at work rather than drink the free coffee that's provided), & I'll buy that before the end of the year as a replacement to my Bodum.
Of course, all of this plastic transfer paranoia is of small concern compared to the quality of water you're starting out with. If you're not filtering with solid carbon block (binds all organic compounds with no waste, energy, co-distillation or toxin concentration issues) then the container you're using is the least of your concerns.
-Greg
"Just what I need - another 'geek' label..." - my friend Mark, on being told of Coffee Geek's existence
Posted Sun Nov 9, 2008, 11:34am Subject: Re: Plastic Coffee Maker/ Cups ? Beware!
Just to add to the paranoia the plastic insert/strainer used on all 4 of the Bodum Chambord press pots I own bare the mark of the devil #7, the least desirable plastic to drink hot beverages from. All were purchased in 2007.
stephenk Senior Member Joined: 8 Nov 2008 Posts: 26 Location: Toronto Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Sun Nov 9, 2008, 3:48pm Subject: Re: Plastic Coffee Maker/ Cups ? Beware!
I use spring water,but even if I did use tap water supposedly tap water is perfectly safe here in Toronto. It looks like you really dont care very much about exposing yourself to plastic toxins,so I dont know why you even bother posting about your semi concerns ?
steven_meyer Senior Member Joined: 19 Jul 2003 Posts: 250 Location: San Bruno Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: ECM Giotto Grinder: mahlkonig vario Roaster: Gene Cafe
Posted Sun Nov 9, 2008, 4:44pm Subject: Re: Plastic Coffee Maker/ Cups ? Beware!
Maybe he didn't take your post that seriously. For your first post, you say something happened that I have never heard of, and I've never read any complaint about something like this happening. And then you miraculously come up with this article after doing research. For all I know, what you say might be 100% true, but this is the internet after all.
Not only that, but since you did mention the brand name of the product, you violated the forum rules for new members.
stephenk Senior Member Joined: 8 Nov 2008 Posts: 26 Location: Toronto Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Sun Nov 9, 2008, 5:32pm Subject: Re: Plastic Coffee Maker/ Cups ? Beware!
ok I understand you may not have heard of this happening before ,and when I tried doing it again I didnt find any piece of plastic at the bottom. Keep in mind however that it was a very small piece ,so small I could have easily missed it. The awful smell was still there the second time around though thats for sure. I dont think too many people out there even have a PC Bodum,but if anybody does,try taking some old coffee, add some very hot water,and let it sit for about 20 minutes. Even though this is not how someone would make their coffee ,it will give an idea of how bad this crap can smell when melting so to speak . This idea of these coffe maker companies expecting people to wait until the plastic is finished gassing off is ridiculous as far as I am concerned. In the meantime people have to just put up with it,and ingest all the known and unkown toxins? Perhaps they just expect us to let these chemicals gas off in our bodies as well. As I said I am still using my glass bodum with a small amount of plastic in the filter ,but knowing what I know about plastic now,I think I will change that when I get a bit of extra cash. `The info I provided about BPH was just info I copied from another site. I suppose the studies quoted could be looked at a bit closer and I will do just that. Would that help convince you? Maybe you would just rather believe the studies done by the plastic companies instead. As far as the opinions provided about water in the previous post ,I dont understand how someone can make such statements without backing them up in any way,at the same time trying to make the very serious info I provided look so trivial .
stephenk Senior Member Joined: 8 Nov 2008 Posts: 26 Location: Toronto Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Sun Nov 9, 2008, 7:25pm Subject: Re: Plastic Coffee Maker/ Cups ? Beware!
Here's a link to the Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy website where you will find 31 different stories on the hazards of BPA .Just type BPA into the search engine there. Note there is a scroll bar in the middle of the results page to see all of them.
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