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jpender
Senior Member
jpender
Joined: 11 Jul 2011
Posts: 719
Location: California
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: OE LIDO
Vac Pot: S/S Moka Pot
Drip: Aeropress
Posted Sun Feb 23, 2014, 11:56am
Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
 

AlanAdler Said:

Do you prefer to brew this way?  Or is this just a hypothetical example?

Posted February 22, 2014 link

I've tried a number of different brewing strategies and continue to experiment. I'm not sure one way works best. While I haven't gone out to 5 minutes I was brewing 2-3 minutes with a somewhat coarse grind and the standard Able Disk for a period of several months.
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jpender
Senior Member
jpender
Joined: 11 Jul 2011
Posts: 719
Location: California
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: OE LIDO
Vac Pot: S/S Moka Pot
Drip: Aeropress
Posted Sun Feb 23, 2014, 12:24pm
Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
 

Will boiling water harm the plunger? I've had a couple of plungers shrink to where they no longer made good contact with the press unless warmed up. I've wondered if this could have been due to inverted brewing and/or preheating.

The plastic parts of the Aeropress can also creep and one might suppose that hotter water would increase the likelihood of that. I have a black Aeropress cap that became slightly convex. The cylinder of the Aeropress I hacked to add a valve now has a visible warp. I also had a cylinder develop odd crazings on it right where the plunger supported it when inverted.

Check out this very old and very used Aeropress cylinder (not mine): Click Here (worldaeropresschampionship.files.wordpress.com)

I also have an old (now retired) plunger seal that became a sponge filled with what is possibly coffee oil. If I let it sit out unused for a week or two a very sticky goo will bead up on its surface. Attached is a photo I took of it after I'd left it untouched for about one month.

jpender: AP_plunger_goo.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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rasqual
Senior Member
rasqual
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 1,076
Location: Chicago area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: *$ Barista, non-pressurized
Grinder: SMP
Vac Pot: Yama, Aeropress
Drip: Porcelain Melitta 103, Hario
Roaster: "ring roaster", mod popper
Posted Wed Feb 26, 2014, 8:26pm
Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
 

AlanAdler Said:

A bit of a chill goes up my spine when I read about pouring boiling water into an inverted AeroPress.  The seal normally contacts air, not boiling water.

The various "hacks" discussed here often increase temperature and time.  We think AeroPress brew tastes good because it works with moderate temperature and has a short wet time.

Posted February 22, 2014 link

Argh.

See that's what you get for creating a versatile, hackable decice but being provincial about the range of the brewing variables. And coming out of idiosyncratic left field with freezing cold water as your standard ;-) you really shouldn't be surprised when folks are pouring 205 degree water all over every part of the device.

Proper extraction can occur with many different permutations of the brewing variables. A hardware device that affords users wide latitude in their selection of permutation sets is going to be pressed to all those limits. You're not in control of that.

I mean, think about this. People use popcorn poppers to roast coffee. By comparison, any lament you might have about folks using hot water on the plunger is going to sound like the inventor of the paper clip complaining about its many alternative uses. "That's not what I designed it for." Tough. It's insanely versatile. Get used to it.   ;-)

You created a monster. Like Frankenstein's creation, you've lost control of it.     ;-)

Do NOT come off like George Lucas with his fans.    LOL

Sorry, but my mind is playing this out a bit. It's kind of funny.

When I first discovered that 175F was the preferred temperature, the tasters based their preference on espresso-strength brew made from French roast beans.  From time to time I wondered if we should repeat the tests with American strength (SCAA "Gold Cup", TDS=1.25%) and a lighter roast.  Well, we finally got a chance with two professional cuppers.  One about my age, the other about 30. The beans were Full City roast with just a hint of shine, but not oily.  The cups were pressed per our instructions, then diluted to exactly 1.25% TDS.


"We have both kinds of roasts -- Really dark, and dark."     ;-)

The taster's point counts were the sum of five criteria* and their scores were quite similar.  They both scored in this order:  

175F best
165F a close second place
185F third place

If 185F had outscored the lower temps, we would have tested higher temps.  But we didn't because it finished last.


You're an engineer. You know there are bimodal distributions (I'm not implying that there actually is one here, were you to survey a large sample -- I'm certainly asserting that it was not quite reasonable to assume there might not be one).

All joking aside, here I'm dead serious -- you should have known better. It's no good continuing to express your incredulity that a vast number of your device's users prefer coffee prepared at variance with your statistically darned low sample size. Mirabile dictu, it's the bloomin' SCAA starndard for temperature. Whodathunkit! And at much lighter roasts as well. George Howells we might not all be -- but relatively few people in specialty coffee gravitate toward the darkest roasts. It's no accident that lighter roasts profit from avoiding low-temperature excursions. Ergo, it's no accident that folks who don't prefer dark roasts, gravitate toward higher temps. QED.

In all good spirit of kinship in this craft, Alan, you should have known better. Am I wrong? Thank God you were iconoclast enough to strike out and create the darned thing. But some conventions encode for learned wisdom. Adventures beyond their bounds may be productive and discover that, to be sure, some traditions are gratuitous and do NOT encode for the wisdom of the ages (witness Ptolemaic astronomy). But just here I think the wisdom of SCAA temperature conventions is being validated -- folks are taking the Aeropress and, doggonit, running really hot water all over every part of the darned thing.

It's like some ritual of veneration.     ;-D
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jpender
Senior Member
jpender
Joined: 11 Jul 2011
Posts: 719
Location: California
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: OE LIDO
Vac Pot: S/S Moka Pot
Drip: Aeropress
Posted Thu Feb 27, 2014, 7:13pm
Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
 

I'd like to see a valve, but more than that I wish Alan would make an Aeropress that you could throw and would fly.
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rasqual
Senior Member
rasqual
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 1,076
Location: Chicago area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: *$ Barista, non-pressurized
Grinder: SMP
Vac Pot: Yama, Aeropress
Drip: Porcelain Melitta 103, Hario
Roaster: "ring roaster", mod popper
Posted Fri Feb 28, 2014, 3:11pm
Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
 

That's the problem with things that inspire us; we become critical of how something so close to perfection can fall just short of it.   ;-D

Or worse, it really is as good as it can be, and then we become critical of all reality for not living up to its qualities.    LOL
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AlanAdler
Senior Member
AlanAdler
Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 719
Location: Palo Alto, Calif
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: AeroPress
Grinder: Baratza - Virtuoso
Roaster: Fresh Roast SR-500
Posted Sun Mar 9, 2014, 10:59am
Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
 

jpender Said:

but more than that I wish Alan would make an Aeropress that you could throw and would fly.

Posted February 27, 2014 link

Here's how:

Put the AeroPress in a package addressed to someone at least 1,000 miles away, with appropriate postage stamps.  

Throw it into a mailbox.

Guaranteed to fly at Mach 0.7.

Alan
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AlanAdler
Senior Member
AlanAdler
Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 719
Location: Palo Alto, Calif
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: AeroPress
Grinder: Baratza - Virtuoso
Roaster: Fresh Roast SR-500
Posted Sun Mar 9, 2014, 11:12am
Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
 

Responding to my esteemed friend and hacker Rasqual, who said I should have known better.  

Yes, I did know that people would hack the process.  How could I not know? I'm very-much a hacker.  All inventors are.  Without hacking there is no inventing.

But inventors try things to see how they work.  I tried AeroPressing for many  tasters at different temperatures to see what they liked.  Every single one preferred 175F or cooler.  

So when I read about people brewing at 205F, I wonder if they've ever tried 175F.

You may think that I'm a missionary for 175F.  But I'm just a messenger.  I observed the tasters preferring 175F and I'm reporting that.  If the tasters had preferred a gazillion degrees I would have reported that.

I'm only the messenger.  Don't shoot the messenger.

Alan
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coffiend
Senior Member


Joined: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 19
Location: Bellingham, WA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Oscar
Grinder: Rocky
Vac Pot: Bodum ESantos Mini
Drip: Aeropress
Posted Sun Mar 9, 2014, 4:46pm
Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
 

I am quoting a post from jpender frm 2/23/14 (Chrome is having trouble using the quoting feature).


"I also have an old (now retired) plunger seal that became a sponge filled with what is possibly coffee oil. If I let it sit out unused for a week or two a very sticky goo will bead up on its surface. Attached is a photo I took of it after I'd left it untouched for about one month."

I'm having this same problem. I used the Aerobie for years exclusively, but when I inherited an Oscar would only use it occasionally for a change of pace.  This oily substance could neither be cleaned with a regular dish soap nor a solvent type cleaner, which was always great at cleaning coffee oils. After multiple cleanings, which did not remove this goo completely,  and using the press I encountered some intestinal distress. I am now afraid to use the Aerobie.  What could this oily substance possibly be?

 
Coffee UP!
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CraigA
Moderator
CraigA
Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 11,263
Location: Rexdale, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: PID/PressureMod 2001...
Grinder: BUNN FPG-2 DBC, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos manual, Yama 5...
Drip: Behmor BraZen, BUNN VPR-APS,...
Roaster: Refurb Behmor 1600, BBQ...
Posted Mon Mar 10, 2014, 10:12am
Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
 

coffiend Said:

This oily substance could neither be cleaned with a regular dish soap nor a solvent type cleaner, which was always great at cleaning coffee oils. After multiple cleanings, which did not remove this goo completely,  and using the press I encountered some intestinal distress. I am now afraid to use the Aerobie.  What could this oily substance possibly be?

Posted March 9, 2014 link

That's the rubber plunger seal breaking down..

 
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JKalpin
Senior Member
JKalpin
Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Posts: 814
Location: Thornhill, Ontario Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Aerobie Aeropress
Grinder: Baratza Maestro Plus
Vac Pot: Yama 5-Cup
Drip: Krups Moka Brew, BraZen
Roaster: Freshroast+8, Behmor 1600+
Posted Mon Mar 10, 2014, 11:02am
Subject: Re: Aerobie Aeropress
 

AlanAdler Said:

Responding to my esteemed friend and hacker Rasqual, who said I should have known better.  

Yes, I did know that people would hack the process.  How could I not know? I'm very-much a hacker.  All inventors are.  Without hacking there is no inventing.

But inventors try things to see how they work.  I tried AeroPressing for many  tasters at different temperatures to see what they liked.  Every single one preferred 175F or cooler.

Posted March 9, 2014 link

Alan,

I recently did 3 roasts of an expensive Guat Gesha, hoping to find the aromatics and flavours claimed by the vendor.  I did most of it in my Aeropress at (I believe) 175F, inverted, 16g for an 8 oz mug and the results were strange:  no aroma, no bitter/brightness balance, no flavour.  Barely recognizeable as coffee.

Then, yesterday, I did a full pot, 65g for 1.2 litres, in my BraZen, at 204F.  It was just as bad.  My family would not drink it and neither could I.  

That, in a backhanded way, supports your argument.

(I have been able to use up the sample, in the Aeropress, upping it to 25g for an 8 oz mug.  It actually is coffee, but …pedestrian.)

 
Jerry
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