Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Coffee: Home Roasting Talk
Hottop Alternatives (price increased!)
Support Coffee Kids
Coffee Kids is a non profit charity working with farming communities around the world. Donate today!
www.coffeekids.org
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Coffee > Home Roast > Hottop...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 2 of 2 first page previous page
Author Messages
CraigA
Moderator
CraigA
Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 11,263
Location: Rexdale, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: PID/PressureMod 2001...
Grinder: BUNN FPG-2 DBC, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos manual, Yama 5...
Drip: Behmor BraZen, BUNN VPR-APS,...
Roaster: Refurb Behmor 1600, BBQ...
Posted Fri Apr 18, 2014, 12:26pm
Subject: Re: Hottop Alternatives (price increased!)
 

I'd go for the Santoker 500/Revolution 500 Roaster, $2,286 plus shipping!

This is an earlier version & has changed, as has options. {;-)

 
http://twitter.com/CoffeegeekCraig
http://www.facebook.com/craig.andrews.169
http://plus.google.com/u/0/100690035958728038289/posts/p/pub

Excellent coffee doesn't just happen!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Contact via AOL Instant Messenger Contact via ICQ Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
germantownrob
Senior Member
germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,156
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Fri Apr 18, 2014, 12:42pm
Subject: Re: Hottop Alternatives (price increased!)
 

CraigA Said:

I'd go for the Santoker 500/Revolution 500 Roaster, $2,286 plus shipping!

This is an earlier version & has changed, as has options. {;-)

Posted April 18, 2014 link

I hope this turns out to be the gem it appears to be and I hope the stress isn't killing Dustin and it all works out.
The mini 500 is another good gas machine in that price range but needs to be imported by the buyer.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
CraigA
Moderator
CraigA
Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 11,263
Location: Rexdale, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: PID/PressureMod 2001...
Grinder: BUNN FPG-2 DBC, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos manual, Yama 5...
Drip: Behmor BraZen, BUNN VPR-APS,...
Roaster: Refurb Behmor 1600, BBQ...
Posted Fri Apr 18, 2014, 12:50pm
Subject: Re: Hottop Alternatives (price increased!)
 

germantownrob Said:

I hope this turns out to be the gem it appears to be and I hope the stress isn't killing Dustin and it all works out.

Posted April 18, 2014 link

I hope so too Rob!

If I had of had all of the money when I contacted Dustin on Feb 25th (work place & couldn't/didn't connect), but did by way of IM on the Home Barista forums., I would of bought one on the spot through Justin.

 
http://twitter.com/CoffeegeekCraig
http://www.facebook.com/craig.andrews.169
http://plus.google.com/u/0/100690035958728038289/posts/p/pub

Excellent coffee doesn't just happen!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Contact via AOL Instant Messenger Contact via ICQ Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
germantownrob
Senior Member
germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,156
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Fri Apr 18, 2014, 1:29pm
Subject: Re: Hottop Alternatives (price increased!)
 

CraigA Said:

I hope so too Rob!

If I had of had all of the money when I contacted Dustin on Feb 25th (work place & couldn't/didn't connect), but did by way of IM on the Home Barista forums., I would of bought one on the spot through Justin.

Posted April 18, 2014 link

I have not seen one in person put even through pictures it is the first machine I thought looks as pretty as my Diedrich. I trust Dustin's opinion of the roasting so all looks great there as well. I do wish Dustin could have kept posting but that is the nature of progression I guess.

Still, $2k on up is a big investment for a home roaster especially if they are looking for an upgrade for control. Having taken a HT apart many times I wish the increase in price would also bring upgraded body parts, only so many times I could get a screw into plastic before it would stop biting. The parts that count I can not complain about though. From memory, which most that know me would advice against trusting, I roasted well over a 500lbs in a HT with only a element change and a front face plate change.

I may never get rid of my HT, it has so many memories in it and was the machine that made me fall in love with quality roasting. Do people still bronze things like babies first shoes?

I may however pick up one of these up and coming electric machines that may come to market as a backup to my commercial machine and as a new toy.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
boar_d_laze
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,390
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Sun Apr 20, 2014, 8:00am
Subject: Re: Hottop Alternatives (price increased!)
 

The HotTop Gene and Gene are so different in terms of the level of control each offers, they shouldn't be considered as being in the same class.  That's one of the things which made the HT such a value for its price -- which was never inconsiderable.

Not counting price, the nearest equivalent to the HT as a roaster was the Quest M3; not the Gene and certainly not the Behmor.  Now that the HT and Quest are more similarly priced, choosing between them is more clean cut.    

Although I see it more as a "next step" than as an alternative, price is a great leveler and the Huky is close enough in price to the HT and Quest, that for all the differences in kludge levels and capacity, they might as well be considered competition.

The Santoker is something else entirely; while the Mini 500 and Yang Chia are in yet another, different class.  Someone who regards these as straight-across competitors with the HT wants a roaster a lot more than he wants a particular kind.  If you've decided that a 250g electric roaster is best suited to your needs and/or roasting style, it doesn't make sense (to me) that a 30% price increase for the HT would change that.    

Rich
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
rmongiovi
Senior Member


Joined: 7 Feb 2006
Posts: 407
Location: Atlanta, GA
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: Ditting KR805
Drip: Technivorm; Bonavita...
Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Sun Apr 20, 2014, 12:37pm
Subject: Re: Hottop Alternatives (price increased!)
 

germantownrob Said:

I have a "real drum roaster" or a commercial drum roaster as I prefer to call it and IMHO the HT is on par with it. Sure it is slower to respond to heat changes and its airflow is not as strong but it also costs 9xs the HT price increase. I think the quest is the only electric machine that came along that can even claim to compete with the HT and while the Huky is probably a great little roaster it is far from plug and play. There are some newer roasters coming to market with larger batch size capabilities but actual price is still up in the air.

Posted April 18, 2014 link

Clearly we have a different definition of "on par".  My hottop is essentially thin sheet metal with an oven type heating element.  Except for the different shape it's basically a toaster oven with a rotisserie.  I can get a toaster oven for under $150.  Toss in the drum, the thermocouple, and the control panel and that's really worth what?  Maybe an extra $400 to $500?  So $820 doesn't seem like an unreasonable markup.  For $1100 I ought to get more, I think.  Maybe both ET and BT thermocouples and a plug in for a PC?
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
boar_d_laze
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,390
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Sun Apr 20, 2014, 5:48pm
Subject: Re: Hottop Alternatives (price increased!)
 

rmongiovi Said:

Clearly we have a different definition of "on par".  My hottop is essentially thin sheet metal with an oven type heating element.  Except for the different shape it's basically a toaster oven with a rotisserie.  I can get a toaster oven for under $150.  Toss in the drum, the thermocouple, and the control panel and that's really worth what?

Posted April 20, 2014 link

Roy, you've just described a Behmor.  So, $300 ought to cover it.

For $1100 I ought to get more, I think.

Unfortunately, we mere consumers don't get to set HT's prices.  While I don't have any particular insight into HT's pricing, it's likely the new price bears a pretty close relationship to what it costs to make and market the roasters and doesn't hide an enormous profit margin.  

There's so much which goes into setting prices.  For instance, in your opinion what's a fair profit margin for HT?  What are their actual costs?  Should they allow retailers to offer a wide variety of discounts?  Would that hurt their distribution network?  How does US HT pricing compare to worldwide pricing?  Does HT have new models in the pipeline?  Will sales of the current model be necessary to finance final development of the new models?  How is the competition priced?  What are current sales?  What are sales projections at the new price?  Etc., etc.    

If a roaster purchaser wants to spend less, he can buy a Gene or a Behmor -- it's not like Randy, Rob and the folks at HotTop have a gun to anyone's head.  If you want to put pressure on HT to lower prices, send sternly worded emails to the retailers and mod a Poppery.  

On the other hand, if you want a small, electric, drum roaster which can take reasonably sophisticated telemetry and execute reasonably sophisticated profiles, there isn't much in the way of choice.  And... let's face it... HT knows what their competition is, how it's built, how it works, and how it's priced.    

One thing on which we are very much in agreement, is looking askance at Rob's use of the term "on par" to compare his Diedrich HR 1 with his HotTop B.  

Rich
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
rmongiovi
Senior Member


Joined: 7 Feb 2006
Posts: 407
Location: Atlanta, GA
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: Ditting KR805
Drip: Technivorm; Bonavita...
Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Sun Apr 20, 2014, 7:34pm
Subject: Re: Hottop Alternatives (price increased!)
 

You're right that we don't get to set the hottop's price.  We as consumers get to vote with our feet.  I'm just expressing my opinion.  At a bit over $800 I voted the hottop "worth it."  At $1100 I would vote "Um, no."  In my book that much of a price increase demands an improvement in performance.  That's just my opinion and worth every penny you paid for it.

As far as the Behmor goes, I haven't seen one but I suspect you're correct as far as build quality goes although I would have to see what the heating element looks like.  What it's lacking is flexibility and that was important enough to me to make me want to spend the extra bucks on the hottop.  Where I found the Gene lacking is in its nichrome wire heating element.  In my experience it was not robust enough to last for more than a year and that was, to me, inadequate.  Other folks seem to have much better luck than I did, although I was always careful to allow the roaster to run its complete cool down cycle before allowing the fan to go off and I never did back-to-back roasts.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Mikenik
Senior Member


Joined: 18 Apr 2014
Posts: 3
Location: Canada
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Sun Apr 20, 2014, 8:00pm
Subject: Re: Hottop Alternatives (price increased!)
 

Oh..This is not good.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
RandomTask
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 67
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Barratza Encore
Drip: Behmor Brazen
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Apr 21, 2014, 12:21pm
Subject: Re: Hottop Alternatives (price increased!)
 

Well, being a resident of Canada, the price increase appears to have hit us as well. There is only one online retailer that I've found (Green Beanery) and it's now over $1200, not including shipping and taxes. So, about the same if I got it shipped from the States, with their slightly lower cost, but with additional shipping and duties.

The unfortunate thing is it does push the price high enough to consider other options for me. Kludgyness aside, the import fees on a Huky would be similar to the Hottop, though shipping would still be higher on the Huky.

I get that HT USA is the manufacturer, if their costs go up, so do ours. Still, a 250g electric vs a 500g gas costing an extra $300 (or so) isn't much of a stretch. Well, I'm not replacing my Behmor just yet, so I'll keep an eye out on the used market, just in case...
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 2 of 2 first page previous page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Coffee > Home Roast > Hottop...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Rancilio Silvia - How to
Step by step guide for easy brewing and steaming with the Rancilio Silvia
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.361717939377)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+