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Extending initial roast and first crack for City+ on Behmor?
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Discussions > Coffee > Home Roast > Extending...  
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TeddyMac
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Nov 2013
Posts: 28
Location: Boston MA
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Capresso Infinity
Vac Pot: Yama stovetop, Hario...
Drip: Hario woodneck, Bona-Vita...
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Fri Dec 13, 2013, 6:17am
Subject: Extending initial roast and first crack for City+ on Behmor?
 

Iím brand new to roasting, and loving this Behmor 1600 even though my roasts have been something less than stellar. My hope is to replicate some of the experience I have with my local roaster (for those of you in the Boston area, itís Barismo). Their roasts - intended primarily for siphon and pourover - tend to be on the lighter side yet still have good body.

The reviews seem to indicate that the Behmor is best at light roasts, but Iíve found them elusive since the first and second crack easily bleed together, or the gap is microscopic. I find the Rosetta Stone helpful but not curative. My results have been somewhat fruity, but uniformly very thin. So far, I've used beans from Brazil, Guatemala, Bolivia, and the results are the same, so I think the primary culprit is user error.

First, in terms of getting a fuller fruity roast, is there any significance to extending the amount of time from the beginning of the roast to the first crack? I.e., a slower progression to first crack? Not sure how that would affect either the fruitiness or the fullness.

The same question regards the duration of the first crack itself. How would extending that time work in favor or against achieving either fruitiness or fullness?

Iíd be grateful for any advice, either general or specific. Iíve had the most success so far (and I hope you all donít cringe at this) by roasting with 1/4 lb beans, then setting 1/2 lb, P2, C.

Many, many thanks for your help & expertise!

PS I did a search as best I could for this topic in the forums but didnít have success. If this is a duplicate of another thread, I apologize.
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caffeinatedjen
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 310
Location: michigan
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera B707
Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Roaster: Behmor
Posted Fri Dec 13, 2013, 12:46pm
Subject: Re: Extending initial roast and first crack for City+ on Behmor?
 

Some people open the door between first and second cracks to extend the time between the two. This only works on profile one though. Have you tried using p3C with your roasts? I think it's what the manual recommends for Central/South American single origins such as what you mention, but of course you can try different settings. I usually do ten ounces at the one pound setting, partly because I want to get a pound of roasted coffee done in two batches. Could you possibly be mistaking stray cracks from the end of first crack for second crack?
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TeddyMac
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Nov 2013
Posts: 28
Location: Boston MA
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Capresso Infinity
Vac Pot: Yama stovetop, Hario...
Drip: Hario woodneck, Bona-Vita...
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Fri Dec 13, 2013, 1:11pm
Subject: Re: Extending initial roast and first crack for City+ on Behmor?
 

Thanks, good thought on perhaps changing amounts. If using smaller amounts yields darker roasts, would the opposite work? In other words, if I put the beans on 1/4 lb setting but put just a bit more than that, would that yield a lighter roast? My roasts are actually pretty light already, so perhaps that's a road I needn't go down, though really the coffee not having body is the issue for me, not its lightness.

I've been using P2 only because it gives a sharp drop-off in heat that I'm assuming is meant to stave off second crack til the end. Is that its rationale? As I look at the profiles, P3 seems to be 1-ish but with a longer ramp up of speed. Good suggestion, I'll try it. Do you have a sense of how a slow ramp-up like that generally effects flavor? Only one way for me to find out; I'll try a batch this afternoon. But if you have a sense already, I'd love to know what you think.

I indeed heard that the door trick seems to be good for extending the time between first and second crack, but since I'm going for a City or City+, I think my aim is to hit Cool right after first crack (or 15 seconds before, if I can manage it, as the manual proscribes) rather than extend the time beyond it. Would using the door trick during the actual first crack extend its duration? I would wonder about the possibility of it killing the crack prematurely, so to speak. And again, I'm curious about what effect on coffee characteristics extending the duration of the first crack usually has.

I'm pretty sure I'm hearing the snap-crackle of second crack (someone on one of these threads said it sounded like bacon cooking, which is a great description) but I wouldn't rule out me mistaking something else for it! I'm a total newbie.
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kboom1
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kboom1
Joined: 31 Aug 2009
Posts: 310
Location: Northeastern Pennsylvania
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Alex2HX,Alex Duetto,Rancilio...
Grinder: Rancilio Rocky,Vario
Roaster: Behmor x2 / USRC Sample...
Posted Fri Dec 13, 2013, 4:09pm
Subject: Re: Extending initial roast and first crack for City+ on Behmor?
 

Try preheating your behmor with the chaff tray inserted for 2mins stop it then insert your loded drum and restart. the preheated machine will give you more body and a more robust flavor. As a note if you are going for a sweeter roast I find roasting on p1 even with Africans then when first starts or a little before (if you time when 1st happens on a prev. roast) open your door 1/4th of the way for 5 secs and then closed for 10. repeat this to slow bean development until your desired roast level. Then when cooling open the door all the way after 2min. I've had great success with using these tricks. p3 is fine for softer beans but do produce more sour fruit notes then sweet.
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sgreen
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sgreen
Joined: 4 Apr 2011
Posts: 94
Location: Minneapolis
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Viblemme Replica E-61
Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly
Drip: Technivorm
Posted Fri Dec 13, 2013, 4:10pm
Subject: Re: Extending initial roast and first crack for City+ on Behmor?
 

I went through much the same experience.

Typically, I roasted 10 oz on P1, opened the door at first crack, and started cooling as rapidly as possible first by removing the chaff collector and using my shop vac to pull more air out of the roast chamber and later by removing the drum immediately while wearing welding gloves and cooling in a home built cooling tray.

After screwing around with all that for several months, I eventually went another direction.

I don't mean to imply that there is anything wrong with the Behmor. It rocks and I can't praise Joe and Co. enough. I just wanted more out of my roasts than it was able to provide short of turning it into something else entirely.

-and yes, thank you kboom1, I forgot to mention preheating.
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TeddyMac
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Joined: 28 Nov 2013
Posts: 28
Location: Boston MA
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Capresso Infinity
Vac Pot: Yama stovetop, Hario...
Drip: Hario woodneck, Bona-Vita...
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Dec 16, 2013, 2:58am
Subject: Re: Extending initial roast and first crack for City+ on Behmor?
 

Thanks very much, all of you. Caffeinatedjen, I tried the P3 and learned my lesson in using the right profile for the right beans. The result was mighty fruity and clean, and the body was a little better. Getting there.

kboom1, thank you for the recommendations re pre-heating the roaster, opening the door, and trying P1. That shall be todayís roast. Iíve been spooked off P1 because of early attempts yielding charred beans, but Iíll gird my loins and try again.

sgreen, thatís a good idea on using the shop vac as cooling fan. Do you mind if I ask the other direction you went in after the Behmor? If youíd rather not say, I totally get it. Or feel free to send a note.

By the way, I have some questions about Behmor controls and timings that are probably too basic for words. Itís  too big a topic shift here so Iíll start another thread.
Thanks again.
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sgreen
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sgreen
Joined: 4 Apr 2011
Posts: 94
Location: Minneapolis
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Viblemme Replica E-61
Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly
Drip: Technivorm
Posted Mon Dec 16, 2013, 8:53am
Subject: Re: Extending initial roast and first crack for City+ on Behmor?
 

Hi Teddy.

I started with a popcorn popper and continued my roasting experiment with the Behmor as the highest capacity, lowest cost alternative.

Speaking as an engineering professional and having worked on similar stuff over 3 decades, the Behmor is the "bees knees." It's  clever, inexpensive, easily serviced, highly efficient, and a robust design. Better yet, Behmor customer service is the stuff of legend.

That said, it is necessarily limited by its design. Not quite enough airflow, no simple way to get a bean mass temp, slow cooling, and somewhat hobbled by (entirely necessary) safety features.

I accidentally ended up with a couple of Sonofresco roasters, then I built an "improved" fluid bed roaster or two, and now instead of building my own commercial style drum roaster, I'm importing them for home and commercial micro-roaster use.

Ultimately, if you are only producing coffee for yourself, the next step beyond your Behmor is a Genecafe, Hottop, Quest M3, or Huky. All good machines, each with its own set of compromises, all more expensive than the Behmor and the price only goes up from there. Each step up in price eliminates another set of compromises. The biggest one is possibly gas vs electric. The next is venting, cooling, and airflow control. Another might be profile control, instrumentation and/or data logging.

Roasting is like anything else; all of this equipment seems expensive until you grow either curious or dissatisfied enough to justify the expense.

After that, for me anyway, it's an endlessly fascinating adventure.

By the way, when you use the shop vac, don't melt your hose. You'll feel it get hot and soften. You'll need to get it away from the roast chamber and pull cool air to cool it down and then back to the chamber. I even tried using the outlet to push more air into the chamber. That worked okay, but blew chaff everywhere. Thus eventually removing the drum with welding gloves.

Again, there's a galaxy of work arounds and modifications for this and nearly every roaster. It just depends on how far you want to take it.
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tglodjo
Senior Member
tglodjo
Joined: 16 Oct 2012
Posts: 209
Location: Jackson, TN
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: Baratza Vario, Virtuoso
Drip: Wave, V60, Chemex, Clever
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Dec 16, 2013, 9:46am
Subject: Re: Extending initial roast and first crack for City+ on Behmor?
 

FWIW, I do a 1:30 pre-roast on P1 with beans in, then press cancel. I only roast 8-12oz at a time, but I ALWAYS choose the 1lb setting and roast by sight/smell/sound. I also use the open door technique to extend first crack. If you haven't check out some of the forums on Sweet Maria's. There's some great advice for "hacking" your Behmor.
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BarryR
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2010
Posts: 277
Location: Wilbraham
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Clever...
Roaster: Hottop KN-8828B2-K
Posted Tue Dec 24, 2013, 4:05pm
Subject: Re: Extending initial roast and first crack for City+ on Behmor?
 

Ditto on much of what's above.
A few add'l comments:

1) From what I've read, P3 is too slow for Latin American coffees other than Brazilian. I think pretty much all the others are considered hard bean.

2) If you stop the roast at the beginning of 1C you'll have a very light roast (I think not even City or a very early city). Probably too light.

3) P2 is very tricky, my understanding is that you want the drop off to happen right before 1C (or early in 1C). If you get it a bit wrong, the beans can stall. I would use P1 first and then see how the P2 drop offs would match up.

4) If you use the free roasterthing for PC (roasterthing.com) or for iPad/pod Roastmaster ($10 but very nicely done), you can play around and see where various curves land.
This is probably easier with roasterthing. They are both great ways to track and log roasts, cuppings and inventories.

5) I often aim for Full City the first time I roast a bean figuring if I fall short (City +) and go a little over (FC+) it'll still probably be pretty good.
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