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North TJ-068 500 gram coffee roaster
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germantownrob
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germantownrob
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Posted Tue Dec 10, 2013, 11:25am
Subject: Re: North TJ-068 500 gram coffee roaster
 

Airflow aids in removing moisture from the beans as they roast, gives some convection heat to a drum roaster, removes chaff, removes smoke, and aids in the fine tuning of a profile.

Recently I have paying close attention to bean weight lose, not for trying to define roast degree but varying the moisture content at same roast levels and varying only airflow, keeping roast times the same.
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sgreen
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Posted Tue Dec 10, 2013, 4:29pm
Subject: Re: North TJ-068 500 gram coffee roaster
 

I'm curious as to what you guys think of roast times.

Do you have a preferred range of time to first crack on your respective roasters? I can get a pound to first crack in under 8 minutes or stretch it out as long as I want. With this roaster, I have been staying in the 9:30 to 12:30 range depending on drop temp and rate of rise. Does anyone think there is any benefit to shortening or lengthening that time?
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boar_d_laze
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Posted Tue Dec 10, 2013, 6:13pm
Subject: Re: North TJ-068 500 gram coffee roaster
 

sgreen Said:

Do you have a preferred range of time to first crack on your respective roasters? I can get a pound to first crack in under 8 minutes or stretch it out as long as I want. With this roaster, I have been staying in the 9:30 to 12:30 range depending on drop temp and rate of rise. Does anyone think there is any benefit to shortening or lengthening that time?

Posted December 10, 2013 link

Tom Owens (Sweet Maria's) did a two part article discussing lengthening certain legs of the roast to increase sweetness and impact.  He did a few sample roasts and polled a small group.  The group favored slightly extended intervals between (a) turn and EOD; and (b) 1stC and drop.  

My experience is that exact timing and exact RoR are very much bean dependent, but usually follow the "Owens profile" in the context of a my own typically best overall profile which is roughly 10min to 1stC, and 15min to drop" by plotting and "ideal" average RoR from turn to 1stC, and adjusting it by breaking it into two legs -- slowing RoR from turn to EOD, and increasing it from EOD to 1stC (in order to hit 1st at 10min).  Then, doing the same thing with an "ideal" averarge RoR from 1stC to drop -- dropping power and increasing air at onset of 1stC (which is exothermic, and will maintain a minimum RoR of about 10F through end of 1stC, almost no matter what you do), in order to anticipate end of 1stC and slightly lengthen the interval from end of 1st to drop by about 30sec -- without stalling.  

At least that's how I most often use do shb.  

BDL
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sgreen
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Posted Wed Dec 11, 2013, 9:04pm
Subject: Re: North TJ-068 500 gram coffee roaster
 

Thanks for the info. I'll be roasting another 10 or 15 lbs this weekend for Christmas and I'll put some of this to use. Going from the Behmor (10 oz, 15-18 min, slightly baked FC+ roasts) to the Sonofresco (1 lb, 8 min. bright FC roasts) and now to this roaster has been a challenge. I drink mostly SO espresso and I'm getting better espresso out of this roaster, for sure. It's just that I suspect the roaster is much more capable than I am at this point. -which isn't saying much for either one of us.

I am having a heck of a good time though.  

I know for a fact that I'm having a hard time distinguishing the end of the drying phase. Is this an arbitrary point where you increase heat and airflow and in consequence rate of rise? Or is this a readily identifiable phase that upon completion necessitates a change in the roaster settings in line with desired roast development of any given batch?
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hankua
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Posted Wed Dec 11, 2013, 11:25pm
Subject: Re: North TJ-068 500 gram coffee roaster
 

I'm my owners manual translated from Chinese to English, drying is indicated by yellow beans with wrinkles "cat eyes". I can see the wrinkles but what the heck are "cat eyes" ?
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sgreen
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Posted Thu Dec 12, 2013, 5:08am
Subject: Re: North TJ-068 500 gram coffee roaster
 

hankua,

I don't know what "cats eyes" are supposed to be, but I know exactly who to ask. Any chance you can send me a scan of your manual?
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sgreen
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Posted Fri Dec 13, 2013, 6:47am
Subject: Re: North TJ-068 500 gram coffee roaster
 

I added a ET thermocouple yesterday and was kind of surprised at how well it worked. It clearly shows an immediate drop in temperature and subsequent stabilization associated with changes in airflow.

Like, duh, -but it is pretty neat to be able to see it.

Trying to get something something going with the drying phase, I had very minimal airflow at drop, 50% at about 5 minutes, and 100% at first crack.

It looks like a nice roast, although I confess to being less than confident about the whole drying phase thing.

I'll cup the roast Monday and report, if anyone is interested.

sgreen: Colombia Hulu roast.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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boar_d_laze
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Posted Fri Dec 13, 2013, 10:04am
Subject: Re: North TJ-068 500 gram coffee roaster
 

The definition of end of drying ("EOD") is a little controversial in that a few people consider everything up to 1stC to be "drying."   Most people though define it differently as an intermediate milestone between charge and 1stC.  

In terms of identification, color is helpful, but smell is better.  It's common to refer to the initial aromas following the turn on the way to EOD as going from "grass" to "hay" to "bread."  

I identify EOD as "bread and rum," and for a given bean am able to identify by it smell to an accuracy of a couple of degrees -- in other words, more than good enough for profiling purposes -- and no doubt, once you've done it a few times you'll develop the same level of consistent accuracy.  

Color at EOD is slightly beyond onset of yellow, but not yet light cinnamon.  Because color at this stage is vague and "betwixt and between" it is harder to nail consistently than smell.  

Following EOD, caramel aromas become apparent, and the color moves to "cinnamon."

Of course, once you have the temps down for your milestones, you tend to rely on them if only for the very good reason that they allow you to be somewhat proactive.  But you never know.  Temps are only a metaphor so keep your nose and your eyes open for the real changes.  

You have to figure out what works best for adjusting actual RoR during any given leg to conform to your ideal profile.  I'm no expert on roasting theory, but it seems to me that most roastmasters (using pro-type roasters) ride power for minute by minute changes and stick with a planned air-flow profile.  For instance, starting with LOW air flow -> a brief burst of HI flow to clear smoke at around the 3min mark -> back to low til EOD -> MED thru 1st C -> HI from 1stC til drop.  

The classic profile for a roaster set up to control flow with a Roaster/Tray damper instead of or along with fan speed (e.g., Diedrich) is 20/80 Roaster/Tray -> 50/50 -> 80/20.  

But, as you undoubtedly already realize, all this control stuff is very roaster dependent.  For instance, my previous roaster (Dalian Amazon 1000) was very sensitive to minor changes in air flow, but my current roaster (USRC Sample Roaster) needs a major goose to react at all.    

Note that you can't really profile playing it by ear.  You must plot what you want to do in advance, and do your best to stick as close to the plan as possible.

BDL
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hankua
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hankua
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Roaster: Feima 800n
Posted Fri Dec 13, 2013, 11:35am
Subject: Re: North TJ-068 500 gram coffee roaster
 

Steve here's a direct quote from my owners manual:

"When the PID reading reaches 160c (around 6-10minutes), please take out some beans via the help of the "roast color sample bar" to check if the bean surface is getting some "wrinkles". If yes, the Dehydration process is complete"

here's another quote:

"Coffee Beans at the dehydration step always wear some irregular stripes. It is called "cat face".

oops - though it was "cat eye". Either way I don't see any faces or eyes in the beans. Lost in translation????
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sgreen
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sgreen
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Posted Fri Dec 13, 2013, 11:56am
Subject: Re: North TJ-068 500 gram coffee roaster
 

BDL, thanks for the insight. I have taken to printing out the roast logs and stapling them to the bags. Then I'm cupping each bag over a couple of days to see what happened inside the bean. I suppose I could make cupping notes on the back and file them. Truthfully, I probably won't.

Your Amazon 1000 was an electric also, IIRC?

I remember reading your posts about it. I'm having a good time with this roaster and I have no complaints whatsoever, except maybe for the squeaking at start-up. Thankfully, that goes away as it warms. I knew I'd quickly tire of the Quest and the Huky. I'm sure they are both terrific in their own right, but I really wanted the larger batch size and the cyclone. I'd be a literal eunuch if I tried to roast 10 lbs under the vent hood in the kitchen and even with a gas burner under the Hucky, it's far too cold in Minnesota for anyone to roast in an unheated garage this time of year. The risky thing about this roaster was always the electric heater, but for roasting in my basement, electricity has some advantages. I was prepared to rebuild the entire machine and even rework the heating if I had to, but so far it's been better than pretty good right out of the box.

It was more money and I could have easily bought 2 new Hottops and a Genecafe for the price I ultimately paid (including air freight and customs), but so far, I am highly pleased.
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