ECM Senior Member Joined: 11 Oct 2003 Posts: 336 Location: Burlington, Ontario Canada Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Giotto Premium + Cantesa... Grinder: Mazzer Robour E Vac Pot: French Press Drip: yes Roaster: Fresh Roast+8, i-roast and...
Posted Tue Dec 25, 2012, 6:12pm Subject: Upgrade HotTop to Pro Roaster - Questions
Hello everyone and marry Christmas to you all!
I have been using a HotTop (p) roaster now for about five years to roast for my espresso setup. While I have enjoyed the roaster I feel I have outgrown it. I am seriously thinking about upgrading to a 1kg electric or gas Toper cafemino or similar roaster.
I would be very interested to hear from anyone that upgraded from a HotTop to a toper or similar model of roaster. Specifically, I am interested to know if the Cafemino is capable of doing a better quality tasting roast then the HotTop.
My other question concerns the use of a gas roaster in a high rise apartment building. How difficult would it be to operate a 1kg gas roaster in a two bedroom apartment? What considerations and or steps will be necessary to implement before attempting this?
I’m thinking that I could probably roast in my dining room and vent the roaster by running some flexible ductwork out the patio door. Would this be an adequate setup to disperse the smoke and spent propane fumes from my environment? Are there other concerns that I need to be aware of from a health perspective?
I would appreciate any assistance you can provide.
Breeze Senior Member Joined: 3 Dec 2006 Posts: 733 Location: St. Croix, V.I. Expertise: Pro Roaster
Espresso: Pasquini Livia S Grinder: Mazzer Mini/Rocky Drip: TechniVorm/Krups MB Roaster: Toper 1 kilo
Posted Tue Dec 25, 2012, 6:45pm Subject: Re: Upgrade HotTop to Pro Roaster - Questions
I'll take a stab at a reply.
I upgraded from a small appliance to a Toper 1 kilo gas drum. I would probably not approach the upgrade from the taste standpoint, but from the desire for greater quantity. While it is my belief that a larger quantity being roasted is perhaps more stable and if the roast is controlled properly, might produce more consistently proper coffee, the small appliances can and do roast very fine coffee. If you are roasting only for yourself, it's up to you to decide if a six or seven thousand dollar investment in a drum is OK.
What really caught my eye was your intention to install a kilo drum in a high rise apartment building. While the smoke production is not out of control, all it would take is one person to object and you'd be in a jam. First stop is going to have to be your local code "friends" to determine if this would be allowed, in the first place. You're going to need 220V power and at least a gas BBQ sized bottle, in the apartment. Even if the government would allow it, the landlord might not.
ECM Senior Member Joined: 11 Oct 2003 Posts: 336 Location: Burlington, Ontario Canada Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Giotto Premium + Cantesa... Grinder: Mazzer Robour E Vac Pot: French Press Drip: yes Roaster: Fresh Roast+8, i-roast and...
Posted Tue Dec 25, 2012, 9:11pm Subject: Re: Upgrade HotTop to Pro Roaster - Questions
Thanks for your reply.
To my knowledge the electric version of the toper is now available in 110 or 220 formats. I guess from a practical point of view the electric version of this roaster would be a much easier way to go for me. Naturally, given the choice I would really prefer gas as the ability to profile is more attainable then it would be on the electric; especially given the fact that the new Toper now has adjustable flame capability.
The other reason I am thinking of a larger style roaster is to roast larger quantities of coffee. The challenge in roasting a ½ Lb batch of coffee on the HotTop is I find with each batch is never quite roasted to the same degree no matter how observant I am. This often results in frequent grinder adjustments to get the grinder dialed in properly. By time I get the grind dialed in just right I’m on to my next ½ Lb batch and the whole process is repeated again. If I were able to roast 1-1/2 Lb batches I could spend more time enjoying the espresso and less time making so many adjustments with the grinder. I also have a lot of friends that I roast for as well so having the larger capacity would be a real plus for me. I’m also thinking that perhaps it’s a bit easier to get repeatable results with a larger professional roaster then it is with the HotTop. I just assumed probably incorrectly, that a professional roaster would give me a better tasting product as well.
Wouldn’t the Toper provide a greater opportunity to control ventilation and thus, the roasting quality?
On this form there is a lot of discussion regarding the importance of a quality grinder and espresso machine. What about the importance a quality roast?
Obviously I don’t want to be kicked out of my home for braking any laws or tenant agreements. I guess the gas option is probably out but I was just wondering from a venting perspective if it was even possible to vent the gas version out the patio door.
I don’t mean to be difficult I’m just attempting to elevate my espresso experience to the next level.
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,012 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Wed Dec 26, 2012, 7:19am Subject: Re: Upgrade HotTop to Pro Roaster - Questions
A few years back when I was shopping for a 1kg machine the Cafemino did not have control over the heat for gas or electric, briefly looking at the specs now it appear both and electric have digital heat control.
Moving from a modded HotTop to a gas Diedrich IR-1 was not the improvement in roasting I had imagined, yes going from the delay of electric elements to gas with much improved airflow does allow for a more refined roast but it was not night and day, this says a lot about the HotTop. I have not followed this much but it seems you can replace your board in the HotTop of a P or B to allow a lab top to control the roaster.
2lbs of beans creates a lot of smoke, yes you could use a flex line for venting the machines exhaust and that will take care of roasting smoke but when the beans are dropped in the cooling tray there is a big waft of smoke that will escape into the room before the cooling tray fan begins to exhaust it. This is not a huge problem for 1 or 2 batches but after two hours or more of roasting in a 40'x40'x15' garage the build of of smoke gets unbearable. In the summer I ran a large squirl cage fan to exhaust the room air but in winter this creates a negative pressure in the garage which brings in very cold air from outside. The solution for this year is a scrubbing soak filter, easiest place to find these is grow shops.
Apartment living and roasting may create a different problem, neighbors, even if you can keep the smell and smoke down in the apartment itself you are blowing it right out side where it may just blow in a neighbors apartment and I would bet a few complaints may bring up the issue that you are using an appliance that they may deem unsafe for apartment living. The closest homes to me are 500yds away, these folks all drink my beans and it was the aroma from roasting that got them hooked.
Posted Wed Dec 26, 2012, 9:40am Subject: Re: Upgrade HotTop to Pro Roaster - Questions
My "B" is now computer controlled using the HTC + TC4C boards and a laptop running RoastLogger. It is quite an amazing setup and gives great control. Still, only +/-250g. capacity.
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