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Quest M3 Roaster - New Asymmetric Heating?
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Discussions > Coffee > Home Roast > Quest M3 Roaster...  
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oldgearhead
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oldgearhead
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Posted Sun Oct 28, 2012, 6:16am
Subject: Re: Quest M3 Roaster - New Asymmetric Heating?
 

Endo Said:

>snip<

In any case, the why I look at it, as long as it doesn't break, I'll take what ever extra heat they'll give me. You don't have to use it all, and it certainly seems to help for roasts over 200g.

Posted October 27, 2012 link

I don't understand "extra heat". Isn't the amount of heat wattage totally dependant on the dial?
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Endo
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Posted Sun Oct 28, 2012, 8:49am
Subject: Re: Quest M3 Roaster - New Asymmetric Heating?
 

oldgearhead Said:

I don't understand "extra heat". Isn't the amount of heat wattage totally dependant on the dial?

Posted October 28, 2012 link

If so, then what would be the point of the "frigid zone" Quest? I would simply turn up the regular model? No?

To be honest, I'm not clear on this, since I'm also running at higher amps as well (between 9 and 10A mostly), and it seems I could go up to 12A (1400W) if I wanted. (Though I've decided to stay below 1200W for now, until I more clearly understand what's going on in my roaster).

What is the typical amp range and max amps on the regular dual 116v Quest? It says 7.5A to 8.5A in the manual if I'm not mistaken. Can you go much higher?
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Dustin360
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Posted Sun Oct 28, 2012, 10:35am
Subject: Re: Quest M3 Roaster - New Asymmetric Heating?
 

Mine maxes out at about 11 amps. And ive been preheating the roaster (til 500 met) at max amp/max fan for over 600 roasts. I keep the maximum heat in check though and rarly go above 500(MET). If you dont have an MET reading, maxing the roaster is a craps shoot.
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Endo
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Posted Sun Oct 28, 2012, 2:08pm
Subject: Re: Quest M3 Roaster - New Asymmetric Heating?
 

Dustin360 Said:

Mine maxes out at about 11 amps. And ive been preheating the roaster (til 500 met) at max amp/max fan for over 600 roasts. I keep the maximum heat in check though and rarly go above 500(MET). If you dont have an MET reading, maxing the roaster is a craps shoot.

Posted October 28, 2012 link

I've used a MET for testing as well. (I removed the upper right front cover bolt and installed a wire thermocouple outside the drum).

I noticed my MET goes up to around 270C after my usual 15 minute warmup at 1050W and min fan setting. This seems to be right in line with your 500 (deg F, I assume) MET max. As you can see from the graph, the MET is actually about 75C higher than ET all the way to drop time. (Note: (ET is actually MET in my graph and BT is actually ET inside the drum where since there are no beans during warmup). Of course if you play with the fan or amps, you can easily change this offset (note how the max fan acutally cools the MET by bringing in cold air at 5 min and 8 min marks in my graph....hence the need to always use the fan, as Mr. Yen clearly states).

Another intersting fact; my amps max out at exactly 12.5A (1500W) and at the 50% point on the knob I get about (1000W). In other words, it's not linear. The regular Quest seems to max out at 11A or about 1300W I assume. This is consistant with the fact my Quest needs about 1.5 more amps when roasting.

Endo: warmup.png
(Click for larger image)
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oldgearhead
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Posted Sun Oct 28, 2012, 4:58pm
Subject: Re: Quest M3 Roaster - New Asymmetric Heating?
 

What type of circuit is used to control the heaters? Is it:
1)  % pulse-type, like sn SSR in manual mode where the output is full on for a % of the time?
2) Mechanical-analog, like a stove-top burner control?
3) Something else?

I think the only way to make comparisons between different Quest roasters is to use watt readings from Kill-A-Watt meters.
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Endo
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Posted Sun Oct 28, 2012, 5:16pm
Subject: Re: Quest M3 Roaster - New Asymmetric Heating?
 

oldgearhead Said:

What type of circuit is used to control the heaters? Is it:
1)  % pulse-type, like sn SSR in manual mode where the output is full on for a % of the time?
2) Mechanical-analog, like a stove-top burner control?
3) Something else?

Posted October 28, 2012 link

Geez....wish I knew. Not % pulse though since watts are constant.


oldgearhead Said:

I think the only way to make comparisons between different Quest roasters is to use watt readings from Kill-A-Watt meters.

Posted October 28, 2012 link

That's what I'm using. Although I have it on the VA setting (apparent power), not the Watts (real power) with the 0.60 power factor (or whatever it is). I assume others here are comparing VA as well? Are you suggesting we should be using this lower version of Watts (real power) for an accurate comparison? (Funny enough, this is kind of where my problems began, when I was trying to understand which watts reading I should be using. See the link below).

"Watt the F#%$#?"
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Endo
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Posted Thu Nov 1, 2012, 7:28pm
Subject: Re: Quest M3 Roaster - New Asymmetric Heating?
 

Just curious, do the regular Quest roasters also have a Power Factor of 0.60? I assume this is the way the triac controls the power?
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Endo
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Posted Sun Nov 4, 2012, 7:10am
Subject: Re: Quest M3 Roaster - New Asymmetric Heating?
 

If I understand this correctly, since my Quest does not operate on a pure resistive circuit like other roasters, and I have a PF of 0.80 due to the triac controller, the real power in watts my heaters are seeing is only 80% of the VA value. In other words, when I'm drawing 10A (as I often do for 200+g roasts), my apparent power (or VA) would be 10A x 120V=1200VA but my real power the heaters see would only be 10A x120V x 0.80=960W (as is indicated on my kill-a-watt when I'm drawing 10A).

This is well below the max wattage rating of 1050W written on the roaster dataplate and well below the combined wattage of 1200W for both heaters.

If so, this would mean I would need to draw roughly 11A to get close to the 1050W max rating. And since my roaster only goes to about 12.5A when dialed all the way up, I need not worry (as Mr.Yen has said numeous times...but without explanation).

Can some electrical person (tech or engineer) confirm this for me?
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oldgearhead
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oldgearhead
Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Posts: 396
Location: Go Colts!
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: Virtuoso by Baratza
Drip: Chemex,Dilongi DCM900
Roaster: 1/2K Fluid-bed
Posted Sun Nov 4, 2012, 6:16pm
Subject: Re: Quest M3 Roaster - New Asymmetric Heating?
 

Triac? I thought you didn't know how it was controlled? My guess would be a more up-to-date method like'PWM'. In either case I think both the pulse width and the number of pulses in an interval would need to know before a .60 can be assumed.

Most roasters are NOT resistive, but rather SSR controlled. Many SSRs are driven by temperature controllers that use a 10 second pulse. If the controller is set for 80% then the pulse will be on for 8 seconds and off for 2 seconds. A PWM control might use a 90 pulse interval every 10 seconds, then vary the width of every pulse to achive the desired control. Older electric ranges are resistive controlled.
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Endo
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Posted Mon Nov 5, 2012, 5:06am
Subject: Re: Quest M3 Roaster - New Asymmetric Heating?
 

I didn't see anything inside that looked like a SSR. And on my kill-a-watt I see no pulsing and a clear 0.80 for the PF at 1100W.

On the Quest website they say; "Power control: Traditional frequency transistor circuit (not IC) instrument level VR".
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