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MoJoeCoffeeRoaster
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Aug 2011
Posts: 12
Location: Vegas
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Oct 15, 2012, 8:31pm
Subject: Roast Profile Help
 

I have been a member here for a while but I haven't posted much.  I have been home roasting with a hg/db for a few years.  I recently switched to a corretto and my roasts have been so much more even and i have gained so much control and i have been able to customize my roasts like never before.

I am trying to organize a list or a "flow chart" to help me build a profile depending on what I am trying to do for that bean.

I would really love some feedback from you all on what you think is correct and what isn't


Total roast lengh:

9:00 to 12:00 minutes
Fast, can be handled by harder beans and to accentuate the sugar sweetness and acidity

12:00 to 14:00 minutes
"Normal" roast times

14:00 and longer
To develop body, reduce acidity, and bring out carmelized sweetness.  Also better for softer beans

-------------

ROASTING PHAZES


DRYING

from start to pale yellow (300f), adding lenght will reduce acidity without altering sweetness or much else

3:30 to 4:30 is standard

5:00 - 6:00minutes reduces some acidity and will increase perceived sweetness and is also needed for softer beans that transfer heat slower


MAILLARD ZONE

Temperature zone where browning starts, sugars are not affected, development of nutty, malty, woody, toasty "savory" flavors (300f-first crack)

2:30 - 4:00 standard minimizes savory components and preserve acidity

5:00 - 7:00 minutes maximize savory components and reduce acidity


FIRST CRACK to FINISH

Sugars start to caramelize (390f) a few degrees before first crack (405f).  Longer time spent here changes the sugars from a sugar sweetness to a carmel and chocolate sweetness and a bitter sweetness in the darker roasts as well.

3:30 - 4:30 minutes to maximize caramelization and chocolate sweetness, reduce acidity, and improve body

2:00 - 3:00 to maximize sugar sweetness, acidity, and show malty savory flavors if they were developed earlier in the roast

Thanks, i am glad to share this and for your help
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oldgearhead
Senior Member
oldgearhead
Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Posts: 396
Location: Go Colts!
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: Virtuoso by Baratza
Drip: Chemex,Dilongi DCM900
Roaster: 1/2K Fluid-bed
Posted Thu Oct 18, 2012, 8:28am
Subject: Re: Roast Profile Help
 

Good post Joe! How are you controlling your phazes? Do you have control of the heater watts?

10/16/2012_456 grams_ Columbian Condor
1) Drying - I think the drying phase is simply a matter of how long the bean mass temperature is at or slightly above 230F. However, I've never tried to hold it at 230F for more than 3 minutes. With my old modified Z&D this was pretty easy. I would just ride the Variac while watching the BMT. With my fluid-bed it's not so easy, because the BMT probe is not as sensitive and bean mass weight is rapidly decreasing. So I just use a low wattage setting, watch for early yellowing, and usually end drying at 4 minutes. I'm often tempted to go have the %moisture measured on my greens and dry to match. But that's a bit extreme even for me.

2) Ramp to first crack - At this point, I  'dial-up' all the energy I have available and wait another 4-5 minutes for first crack to start. I like to see a rise of 1DF/second.

3) Finish - As soon as first crack gets rolling, I drop the energy input 30% and make sure the BMT is  advancing slowly, about 1DF/5 seconds...

I ended up with 375 grams of very nice coffee.
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sea221
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 98
Location: Arizona
Expertise: I live coffee

Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso
Drip: French Press/Bunn
Roaster: SC/TO and 2 Kilo gas Drum...
Posted Thu Oct 18, 2012, 11:41am
Subject: Re: Roast Profile Help
 

Very nice post, I am just trying to get my head around first crack at 300 deg F, do mean celsious my first crack comes in around 410F and ramp up to 436F. Just curios Rich
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oldgearhead
Senior Member
oldgearhead
Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Posts: 396
Location: Go Colts!
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: Virtuoso by Baratza
Drip: Chemex,Dilongi DCM900
Roaster: 1/2K Fluid-bed
Posted Thu Oct 18, 2012, 4:40pm
Subject: Re: Roast Profile Help
 

sea221 Said:

Very nice post, I am just trying to get my head around first crack at 300 deg F, do mean celsious my first crack comes in around 410F and ramp up to 436F. Just curios Rich

Posted October 18, 2012 link

Richard - I think he was describing the 'Malliard Zone' as being between 300F and first crack. First crack occurs on my therocouple between 390F and 410F.
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MoJoeCoffeeRoaster
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Aug 2011
Posts: 12
Location: Vegas
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Fri Oct 19, 2012, 9:49pm
Subject: Re: Roast Profile Help
 

Exactly sea, the "maillard zone runs from the end of the drying phase (300f) to up to just below first crack (400f).  I do think my times were a little long on these, 2:30 seems fast but still okay to blast through it, not 3:30 like I posted, I am going to change it.  


Oldgearhead, I have a Dewalt variable temp heat gun with a corretto roaster with a bean temp probe inside.  It has plenty of power to reach any profile I want while roasting one pound and with the fan on high.  I just adjust the temp to what I want, I don't need to turn the fan down to get fast increases if I want it.  



I do have a question regarding finish temps of different degrees of roasts.

The site I use to get a lot of info is sweet marias but the bean temps they have seem to be high, for example they state that FC starts at 401f, sounds right.  But they state that Full City is at 445, 45f above first crack.  For me 45f after first crack puts me right into the beginning of rolling second crack.  

So how many degrees after first crack have you noticed

1) the end of first crack

2) Full City

3) second crack



Thanks.
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oldgearhead
Senior Member
oldgearhead
Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Posts: 396
Location: Go Colts!
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: Virtuoso by Baratza
Drip: Chemex,Dilongi DCM900
Roaster: 1/2K Fluid-bed
Posted Sat Oct 20, 2012, 6:03am
Subject: Re: Roast Profile Help
 

Joe, I rarely go into second crack, as my wife and I prefer light roasts. Also, I haven't bothered with the temperature probe for a couple of months. However, yesterday, I put in the probe and did a very good imitation of a Starbucks roast (black & oily). I stopped it at BMT=450F. The numbers:
Columbian Condor
1) Drying (end)= 277F
2) First Crack (2 'pops') = 397F
3) Second Crack (start) = 431F
4) End of second crack = 451F

So I scarificed a few little high-grown beans for a temperature study. I don't think they have much of their flavor left...
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MoJoeCoffeeRoaster
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Aug 2011
Posts: 12
Location: Vegas
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sat Oct 20, 2012, 7:45am
Subject: Re: Roast Profile Help
 

oldgearhead Said:

Joe, I rarely go into second crack, as my wife and I prefer light roasts. Also, I haven't bothered with the temperature probe for a couple of months. However, yesterday, I put in the probe and did a very good imitation of a Starbucks roast (black & oily). I stopped it at BMT=450F. The numbers:
Columbian Condor
1) Drying (end)= 277F
2) First Crack (2 'pops') = 397F
3) Second Crack (start) = 431F
4) End of second crack = 451F

So I scarificed a few little high-grown beans for a temperature study. I don't think they have much of their flavor left...

Posted October 20, 2012 link

Ya I hate dark roasts too.

Thanks this is great info, I guess I could have just sacrificed a few beans to find out myself.  I know I have done the same test but I have only recorded the times, not the temps, I just started using a temp probe.    

I have observed about the same, I get to start of second crack 35f after first crack and it starts rolling 40f.

So I'm not going to use temps to figure out my finished roasts, rather temperature rise after first crack.

This is what I think works for me and and you verified it with the temps you got too, these are the temperature rises after a few pops of first crack for the roasts i'll use.  

City 20f

City+ 25f

Full City 30f

Full City+ 35f
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oldgearhead
Senior Member
oldgearhead
Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Posts: 396
Location: Go Colts!
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: Virtuoso by Baratza
Drip: Chemex,Dilongi DCM900
Roaster: 1/2K Fluid-bed
Posted Sat Oct 20, 2012, 10:05am
Subject: Re: Roast Profile Help
 

Joe, Our roasters are quite a bit different. I use a fluid-bed, and it's bean-mass-temperature is always influenced by the amount of air in the mass at any point in time. A normal roast for me goes something like this:
1) Warm-up RC to 300F on the glass surface.
2) T= 0min, dump in 440 grams of  beans, set 1000 watts, and 20% recycled hot air. and start drying phase.
3) T= 3min, Turn down blower (beans are getting lighter)
4) T= 4min, set 1305 watts, 40% hot air recycling, ramp to first crack.
5) T= 6min, turn down blower again.
6) T= 7-8min, first crack is starting, when it gets rolling I change the energy settings to: 1100watt and 20%   recycled hot air.
7) T= rolling first crack + 2-3 minutes, finishing phase. I'm going by sight at this point, but I do keep an eye on
temperature. Temperature is usually around 410-420F when I stop.

In addition the the BMT probe, that I do not use very often. I have a TC right under the bean mass that tracks the BMT probe pretty close during the 'finishing phase'.

oldgearhead: DSC_9153.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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