MoJoeCoffeeRoaster Senior Member Joined: 19 Aug 2011 Posts: 12 Location: Vegas Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Mon Oct 15, 2012, 8:31pm Subject: Roast Profile Help
I have been a member here for a while but I haven't posted much. I have been home roasting with a hg/db for a few years. I recently switched to a corretto and my roasts have been so much more even and i have gained so much control and i have been able to customize my roasts like never before.
I am trying to organize a list or a "flow chart" to help me build a profile depending on what I am trying to do for that bean.
I would really love some feedback from you all on what you think is correct and what isn't
Total roast lengh:
9:00 to 12:00 minutes Fast, can be handled by harder beans and to accentuate the sugar sweetness and acidity
12:00 to 14:00 minutes "Normal" roast times
14:00 and longer To develop body, reduce acidity, and bring out carmelized sweetness. Also better for softer beans
-------------
ROASTING PHAZES
DRYING
from start to pale yellow (300f), adding lenght will reduce acidity without altering sweetness or much else
3:30 to 4:30 is standard
5:00 - 6:00minutes reduces some acidity and will increase perceived sweetness and is also needed for softer beans that transfer heat slower
MAILLARD ZONE
Temperature zone where browning starts, sugars are not affected, development of nutty, malty, woody, toasty "savory" flavors (300f-first crack)
2:30 - 4:00 standard minimizes savory components and preserve acidity
5:00 - 7:00 minutes maximize savory components and reduce acidity
FIRST CRACK to FINISH
Sugars start to caramelize (390f) a few degrees before first crack (405f). Longer time spent here changes the sugars from a sugar sweetness to a carmel and chocolate sweetness and a bitter sweetness in the darker roasts as well.
3:30 - 4:30 minutes to maximize caramelization and chocolate sweetness, reduce acidity, and improve body
2:00 - 3:00 to maximize sugar sweetness, acidity, and show malty savory flavors if they were developed earlier in the roast
oldgearhead Senior Member Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Posts: 354 Location: Go Colts! Expertise: I like coffee
Grinder: Virtuoso by Baratza Drip: Chemex,Dilongi DCM900 Roaster: 1/2K Fluid-bed
Posted Thu Oct 18, 2012, 8:28am Subject: Re: Roast Profile Help
Good post Joe! How are you controlling your phazes? Do you have control of the heater watts?
10/16/2012_456 grams_ Columbian Condor 1) Drying - I think the drying phase is simply a matter of how long the bean mass temperature is at or slightly above 230F. However, I've never tried to hold it at 230F for more than 3 minutes. With my old modified Z&D this was pretty easy. I would just ride the Variac while watching the BMT. With my fluid-bed it's not so easy, because the BMT probe is not as sensitive and bean mass weight is rapidly decreasing. So I just use a low wattage setting, watch for early yellowing, and usually end drying at 4 minutes. I'm often tempted to go have the %moisture measured on my greens and dry to match. But that's a bit extreme even for me.
2) Ramp to first crack - At this point, I 'dial-up' all the energy I have available and wait another 4-5 minutes for first crack to start. I like to see a rise of 1DF/second.
3) Finish - As soon as first crack gets rolling, I drop the energy input 30% and make sure the BMT is advancing slowly, about 1DF/5 seconds...
sea221 Senior Member Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 94 Location: Arizona Expertise: I live coffee
Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso Drip: French Press/cuisinart drip Roaster: SC/TO and Drum roaster
Posted Thu Oct 18, 2012, 11:41am Subject: Re: Roast Profile Help
Very nice post, I am just trying to get my head around first crack at 300 deg F, do mean celsious my first crack comes in around 410F and ramp up to 436F. Just curios Rich
oldgearhead Senior Member Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Posts: 354 Location: Go Colts! Expertise: I like coffee
Grinder: Virtuoso by Baratza Drip: Chemex,Dilongi DCM900 Roaster: 1/2K Fluid-bed
Posted Thu Oct 18, 2012, 4:40pm Subject: Re: Roast Profile Help
sea221 Said:
Very nice post, I am just trying to get my head around first crack at 300 deg F, do mean celsious my first crack comes in around 410F and ramp up to 436F. Just curios Rich
Richard - I think he was describing the 'Malliard Zone' as being between 300F and first crack. First crack occurs on my therocouple between 390F and 410F.
MoJoeCoffeeRoaster Senior Member Joined: 19 Aug 2011 Posts: 12 Location: Vegas Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Fri Oct 19, 2012, 9:49pm Subject: Re: Roast Profile Help
Exactly sea, the "maillard zone runs from the end of the drying phase (300f) to up to just below first crack (400f). I do think my times were a little long on these, 2:30 seems fast but still okay to blast through it, not 3:30 like I posted, I am going to change it.
Oldgearhead, I have a Dewalt variable temp heat gun with a corretto roaster with a bean temp probe inside. It has plenty of power to reach any profile I want while roasting one pound and with the fan on high. I just adjust the temp to what I want, I don't need to turn the fan down to get fast increases if I want it.
I do have a question regarding finish temps of different degrees of roasts.
The site I use to get a lot of info is sweet marias but the bean temps they have seem to be high, for example they state that FC starts at 401f, sounds right. But they state that Full City is at 445, 45f above first crack. For me 45f after first crack puts me right into the beginning of rolling second crack.
So how many degrees after first crack have you noticed
oldgearhead Senior Member Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Posts: 354 Location: Go Colts! Expertise: I like coffee
Grinder: Virtuoso by Baratza Drip: Chemex,Dilongi DCM900 Roaster: 1/2K Fluid-bed
Posted Sat Oct 20, 2012, 6:03am Subject: Re: Roast Profile Help
Joe, I rarely go into second crack, as my wife and I prefer light roasts. Also, I haven't bothered with the temperature probe for a couple of months. However, yesterday, I put in the probe and did a very good imitation of a Starbucks roast (black & oily). I stopped it at BMT=450F. The numbers: Columbian Condor 1) Drying (end)= 277F 2) First Crack (2 'pops') = 397F 3) Second Crack (start) = 431F 4) End of second crack = 451F
So I scarificed a few little high-grown beans for a temperature study. I don't think they have much of their flavor left...
MoJoeCoffeeRoaster Senior Member Joined: 19 Aug 2011 Posts: 12 Location: Vegas Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sat Oct 20, 2012, 7:45am Subject: Re: Roast Profile Help
oldgearhead Said:
Joe, I rarely go into second crack, as my wife and I prefer light roasts. Also, I haven't bothered with the temperature probe for a couple of months. However, yesterday, I put in the probe and did a very good imitation of a Starbucks roast (black & oily). I stopped it at BMT=450F. The numbers: Columbian Condor 1) Drying (end)= 277F 2) First Crack (2 'pops') = 397F 3) Second Crack (start) = 431F 4) End of second crack = 451F
So I scarificed a few little high-grown beans for a temperature study. I don't think they have much of their flavor left...
Thanks this is great info, I guess I could have just sacrificed a few beans to find out myself. I know I have done the same test but I have only recorded the times, not the temps, I just started using a temp probe.
I have observed about the same, I get to start of second crack 35f after first crack and it starts rolling 40f.
So I'm not going to use temps to figure out my finished roasts, rather temperature rise after first crack.
This is what I think works for me and and you verified it with the temps you got too, these are the temperature rises after a few pops of first crack for the roasts i'll use.
oldgearhead Senior Member Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Posts: 354 Location: Go Colts! Expertise: I like coffee
Grinder: Virtuoso by Baratza Drip: Chemex,Dilongi DCM900 Roaster: 1/2K Fluid-bed
Posted Sat Oct 20, 2012, 10:05am Subject: Re: Roast Profile Help
Joe, Our roasters are quite a bit different. I use a fluid-bed, and it's bean-mass-temperature is always influenced by the amount of air in the mass at any point in time. A normal roast for me goes something like this: 1) Warm-up RC to 300F on the glass surface. 2) T= 0min, dump in 440 grams of beans, set 1000 watts, and 20% recycled hot air. and start drying phase. 3) T= 3min, Turn down blower (beans are getting lighter) 4) T= 4min, set 1305 watts, 40% hot air recycling, ramp to first crack. 5) T= 6min, turn down blower again. 6) T= 7-8min, first crack is starting, when it gets rolling I change the energy settings to: 1100watt and 20% recycled hot air. 7) T= rolling first crack + 2-3 minutes, finishing phase. I'm going by sight at this point, but I do keep an eye on temperature. Temperature is usually around 410-420F when I stop.
In addition the the BMT probe, that I do not use very often. I have a TC right under the bean mass that tracks the BMT probe pretty close during the 'finishing phase'.
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