pngboy Senior Member Joined: 24 Jun 2011 Posts: 22 Location: Harrisonburg Expertise: I live coffee
Drip: chemex Roaster: Behmor
Posted Sat Sep 29, 2012, 9:25am Subject: Re: Quest M3 Roaster - New Asymmetric Heating?
Looks good Endo. Its deff very capable looking on the graph. Thanks again Dave for the wealth of knowledge and taking your time to explain it. I'm deff going to give your way a try. I guess its mostly a matter of developing my palate , experimenting and finding out what tastes best to me. What would your average drop temps be for High grown and LG beans like brazil with 250g? Just looking for a starting point when I try your method. Right now I have a bunch of ethiopians and brazil beans I need to roast. In F my drop temp would be about 400 for HG and 370 for LG with 170g and no fan during the drying phase.
DavecUK Senior Member Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Posts: 916 Location: UK Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sat Sep 29, 2012, 3:29pm Subject: Re: Quest M3 Roaster - New Asymmetric Heating?
pngboy Said:
Looks good Endo. Its deff very capable looking on the graph. Thanks again Dave for the wealth of knowledge and taking your time to explain it. I'm deff going to give your way a try. I guess its mostly a matter of developing my palate , experimenting and finding out what tastes best to me. What would your average drop temps be for High grown and LG beans like brazil with 250g? Just looking for a starting point when I try your method. Right now I have a bunch of ethiopians and brazil beans I need to roast. In F my drop temp would be about 400 for HG and 370 for LG with 170g and no fan during the drying phase.
While cooling one roast, the heater is turned off. For the next roast I set the heater back up at 870W, and 20 seconds later drop the beans in....fan at 4.5. I suppose the temperature is around 200C ish. If it's the first roast I warm up at 750W to 200, then drop (750W, gives a slow warm up so that the roaster structure becomes warm, even then the first roast is always different to second and subsequent roasts). With such little thermal mass, the little quest is not going to tip or scorch the beans with high drop temps and once the beans are added it plummets to 130C or so anyway. It's not like a big 25kg gas probat, where you definitely wouldn't drop at 200C, more like 140C.
With high grown and low grown coffees it's dangerous to assume one can take a higher drop temperature than another...they will both tip and scorch just as easy in a big thermal mass roaster. The main difference is perhaps the amount of high temperature abuse they can take and how they react at 1st crack. I always tend to look at the line on the bean, if it's tight, then I assume denser, also with a roast look for frogs rather than toads when deciding if the roast went well.....this referring to the appearance of the outside of the bean..."nice and smooth" = frog, "not plump and smooth, but slightly rough" = Toad
P.S. Use your fan, more even heating and less strain on the heating element, plus it removes the moisture from the roaster chamber (after all your roasting not steaming)
Endo Senior Member Joined: 26 Jun 2008 Posts: 804 Location: , location, location. Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: machine is < important than... Grinder: !
Posted Mon Oct 1, 2012, 5:27am Subject: Re: Quest M3 Roaster - New Asymmetric Heating?
More info from the manufacturer...
The Quest really is a custom made machine. Apparently mine has been designed specifically for the more northern countries like Canada where a little more power is required due to the colder ambient. They seem to suggest the changes are more than just the heater as well, since they don't sell the heater as a separate item.
So does this mean they have 3 different heaters? The first one (the one that broke all the time). The second more durable heater version (that is in the latest Coffeeshrub version). The third more powerful one that is on the left side of the "Canadian Edition Quest".
Or could it simply be they had a few old heaters hanging around and decided to save some bucks and make a version that has both? Hmmmm....
pngboy Senior Member Joined: 24 Jun 2011 Posts: 22 Location: Harrisonburg Expertise: I live coffee
Drip: chemex Roaster: Behmor
Posted Mon Oct 1, 2012, 7:30pm Subject: Re: Quest M3 Roaster - New Asymmetric Heating?
If its not broken I guess they could tell you anything, who know's if its true or not. But if you can roast 250g 13-14 min it sounds like the roaster working pretty good.
Usually when It come to drop temp for the beans I just look at what elevation its grown at. Thanks for the advice on checking out how tight the fisher is on the bean I'll have to start doing that. I've found that most of my roast that are around a city roast = more of a toad like bean and Full City and up = nice and smooth, frog like. Wouldn't the amount of time it takes the temp to turn around after drop be almost as important as the drop temp. I've seen profiles where the beans are dropped @ a lower temp but has a really quick turn around and other profiles where they are dropped @ higher temp and have a slower turn around. I'm sure theres an affect on the roast but not quite sure what affect it would have.
DavecUK Senior Member Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Posts: 916 Location: UK Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Tue Oct 2, 2012, 5:44am Subject: Re: Quest M3 Roaster - New Asymmetric Heating?
Endo Said:
More info from the manufacturer...
The Quest really is a custom made machine. Apparently mine has been designed specifically for the more northern countries like Canada where a little more power is required due to the colder ambient. They seem to suggest the changes are more than just the heater as well, since they don't sell the heater as a separate item.
So does this mean they have 3 different heaters? The first one (the one that broke all the time). The second more durable heater version (that is in the latest Coffeeshrub version). The third more powerful one that is on the left side of the "Canadian Edition Quest".
Or could it simply be they had a few old heaters hanging around and decided to save some bucks and make a version that has both? Hmmmm....
You're right to be suspicious....there's lies, then damn lies, then statistics, after this usually comes what manufacturers will say to defend their product. I don't remember the last time any manufacturer said "well, yup, their product is just better than ours, but we're nicer people"
In my hot little hand I have a couple of new heater elements..........In the UK they currently use 2 x 116V 600W heating elements for the UK and presumably European models. This gives a total of 232V, split down into 116V heating elements. Presumably they are simply splitting the sine wave then pulsing it to achieve the required control and power for each side. I am fairly careful not to apply more than around 900W, as the voltage in the UK is somewhat higher and can split at up to 124V per heating element. If they are run at near their maximum it can shorten the life or break down the internal insulation.
The roaster itself will also not like the heat generated at much more than 900W output, hence my recommendation to work in Watts (common unit of reference). Now in the US they presumably don't need to split the wave, but of course can use essentially the same heating elements (clever), as I doubt you have 2 x 60V elements..
I know of a few Quests sold in the last 3 months that have had very early heating element failures, hence why I thought they might have a bad batch. The elements in your photo simply don't look right, the explanation doesn't sound right.
If it were my roaster, I would take them out, see what's stamped on them, check the resistance, see if it's different compared to the ratings, swap them over. If it burns bright on the same side each time, then yes, they either have an asymmetrical control system by design, or by accident. If the brightness moves with the element (and if the ratings stamped on each are the same)...then you are undoubtedly being treated like a mushroom (kept in the dark and fed a load of ^&^&).
oldgearhead Senior Member Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Posts: 354 Location: Go Colts! Expertise: I like coffee
Grinder: Virtuoso by Baratza Drip: Chemex,Dilongi DCM900 Roaster: 1/2K Fluid-bed
Posted Tue Oct 2, 2012, 6:14am Subject: Re: Quest M3 Roaster - New Asymmetric Heating?
The Quest (600 watts) elements are rather low-powered. But putting two of them together and only drawing 1000 Watts, tells me they are always controlled at less than 100%. Furthermore, because they are never operated at 100%, suggests they are the 116V rated units.
From a cost standpoint, I cannot see the justification of having a 'drive' for each element. Therefore, it's my guess you might have one 116V (Euro) element and one 130 V (USA) element...
Endo Senior Member Joined: 26 Jun 2008 Posts: 804 Location: , location, location. Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: machine is < important than... Grinder: !
Posted Tue Oct 2, 2012, 7:04pm Subject: Re: Quest M3 Roaster - New Asymmetric Heating?
oldgearhead Said:
The Quest (600 watts) elements are rather low-powered. But putting two of them together and only drawing 1000 Watts, tells me they are always controlled at less than 100%. Furthermore, because they are never operated at 100%, suggests they are the 116V rated units.
From a cost standpoint, I cannot see the justification of having a 'drive' for each element. Therefore, it's my guess you might have one 116V (Euro) element and one 130 V (USA) element...
Interesting theory. Is there any way I can check this out?
I'll pull them out eventually, swap them, look for wattage stamp and check resistance. Right now I'm just enjoying roasting so it might be a few more weeks before this happens. Stay tuned...
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