Posted Mon Apr 30, 2012, 5:33pm Subject: Re: Nesco Professional Roaster on sale at Sears $122 shipped
Hi Dana,
That is a very good price. I have been a major fan of Z&D (old name for this roaster) for many years, however it has become a love / hate relationship.
Out of the box they were a bit underpowered. I believe they increased the power of the roast heater somewhat so they may be better. This issue can be somewhat mitigated by preheating and reducing the size of the load (opposite from a true fluid-bed).
I have seriously hacked mine and now will put it up against any roaster for the quality of what I can get from it. Thru-put is still not so great.
To see what I did look at this string: "Z&D Update"
Why the hate? Back when it was Z&D they would sell roast chambers for $20. Now they are ~$50. The auger is belt driven. Z&D would give me belts. Nesco won't even sell them. Neither company would sell heating elements. I go through heating elements at a pretty fast rate as I flog them with as much as 150 Volts. When I called the Nesco people and asked they said I would have to send the machine to them for repairs. I pointed out that my machine was heavily modified. She told me that they would return the machine to its "proper" configuration then repair it. I don't do well with uninformed criticism of my designs. I replied that the proper configuration is as I have it and if they had a lick of sense they would have made it that way.
I am down to one more heater which people such as Old Gearhead have graciously given me from their Z&D graveyards. One of my projects is to design my own before its demise. My stereo equipment now takes most of my spare time but after I have to install the last heater the new heater design priority will have to be bumped up.
Posted Mon Apr 30, 2012, 6:09pm Subject: Re: Nesco Professional Roaster on sale at Sears $122 shipped
PJK Said:
I pointed out that my machine was heavily modified. She told me that they would return the machine to its "proper" configuration then repair it. I don't do well with uninformed criticism of my designs. I replied that the proper configuration is as I have it and if they had a lick of sense they would have made it that way.
Posted Mon Apr 30, 2012, 6:51pm Subject: Re: Nesco Professional Roaster on sale at Sears $122 shipped
Hi Randy,
The claim is liability. For the heater the claim has a shred of validity but for the belt I think it is silly.
On the heater thing If they would work with me I would be willing to let them repair the machine. I would even supply them with a schematic of my mods. To destroy my work and charge me for it won't do however.
Since the heaters are pretty much a consumable with me I should think there should be a way for me to sign some release of liability and have them sell me the heaters so I would have them on the shelf. I think Old Gearhead tried that with them but they wouldn't hear of it.
Phil
frcn Said:
And for the life of me I cannot understand why they will not sell you spare parts! ;-)
tahoejoe Senior Member Joined: 9 Sep 2003 Posts: 557 Location: San Diego/ Incline Village Nv. Expertise: I live coffee
Grinder: Solis Maestro Drip: Behmor Brazen Brew System Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Apr 30, 2012, 7:32pm Subject: Re: Nesco Professional Roaster on sale at Sears $122 shipped
As a consumer I can and do understand your points but as a manufacturer I can tell you even if you'd sign a liability waiver in blood, insurance companies and their attorney's wouldn't give a damn about your release. If something did occur they'd ignore your release and sue or threaten to sue until someone coughed up money. Cost to start to litigate is about $75-100k..so they look for 25-50K to make it all go away.
It sucks, but blame the scum sucking vermin attorney's for the mess not the manufacturer trying to prevent/ minimize the risk involved.
The day the US starts a loser pay system is the day threats of legal extortion will cease but not until.
REMINDER: Never leave the roaster unattended when in use !! And remember to use our Rosetta Stone tip PART V PARAGRAPH 3.. it works !!!
Posted Mon Apr 30, 2012, 8:51pm Subject: Re: Nesco Professional Roaster on sale at Sears $122 shipped
Hi Joe,
You seem to hold attorneys in even less esteem than I. I know it gives you the willies when people talk of modifying your roasters but still you sell parts and have customer service rivaled only by Baratza.
I can and do buy brake and suspension parts for my car. Imagine how many people could get injured If I screwed up installing them yet the OEM and all manner of competitors sell the parts.
There has to be a way.
While I'm venting on this lets compare Dacor to GE. I bought a used Dacor gas cook-top for my house which was under construction. It was natural gas and we only have propane at the new house. I called Dacor to get the orifices to convert. They insisted that I be certified in gas combustion before selling them. I found a place which plugged and re drilled the orifices for me. $20 total. We had to move a fairly cheap GE free standing gas stove to do the flooring in our old house. As I looked in back of the lowly GE stove I found an envelope which contained orifices to convert to propane. Do you think I'll ever buy a new Dacor appliance?
Phil
tahoejoe Said:
As a consumer I can and do understand your points but as a manufacturer I can tell you even if you'd sign a liability waiver in blood, insurance companies and their attorney's wouldn't give a damn about your release. If something did occur they'd ignore your release and sue or threaten to sue until someone coughed up money. Cost to start to litigate is about $75-100k..so they look for 25-50K to make it all go away.
It sucks, but blame the scum sucking vermin attorney's for the mess not the manufacturer trying to prevent/ minimize the risk involved.
The day the US starts a loser pay system is the day threats of legal extortion will cease but not until.
Snaxx Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2008 Posts: 115 Location: Northeast Michigan, LP Expertise: I love coffee
Grinder: KitchenAid A9 Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster Roaster: I Roast2
Posted Mon Apr 30, 2012, 10:03pm Subject: Re: Nesco Professional Roaster on sale at Sears $122 shipped
Probably ever so simple Phil, to get Nesco to sell you what you need. Since you're an electrical engineer, you're probably quite knowledgeable and qualified to become PJK Appliance Repair, Enterprises, Services, or whatever you'd want to call yourself. Having a business presence usually gets many benefits from companies and wholesale houses that the ordinary guy off the street will never get.
I certainly agree with you that for a company to refuse to sell any parts one might need to fix a Nesco Roaster or any brand roaster is not wise. If one has the ability to fix things and is competent, it would seem obtaining repair parts from the company and replacing a defective part on an appliance would be preferable to continue using the device if the failure of the part was causing a safety issue due to exposed wiring, or abnormal arcing or sparking was occurring during use because of failed electrical insulators, or any other deficiency; because the company wouldn't sell their parts to an owner.
Also, I was wondering how your mods have improved your roaster. What is an average load you roast in there, and what is a maximum load you can roast? Are you limited in any way by high chaff coffees? What do your roasts seem to require for time, from startup time to the end of roast at the beginning of the cooling point?
Posted Mon Apr 30, 2012, 11:43pm Subject: Re: Nesco Professional Roaster on sale at Sears $122 shipped
Hi Ken,
That is a good suggestion. As a retired person if I did that I could make a little money to pay for my beans by fixing appliances and audio equipment. Of course then I'd have to worry about the "scum sucking vermin" attorneys.
With my mods I can control the roast temperature vs time profile. Of course a variable transformer which will reach 150 volts is required. I can roast about one cup of beans in a load. That is about the limit as when the beans expand they are just about to reach the bottom of the chaff cup with the one cup charge.
I preheat the machine to about 400 degrees F before charging it with green beans. That takes about 2 minutes. Then I ramp up to 225 degrees F at full power which takes about two minutes. At that point I cut the power and stabilize for two minutes during which I climb to 235 degrees F. I then ramp at 30 degrees F / minute to 325 degrees F at which time I slow to 20 degrees F / minute to 385 degrees, then 10 degrees / minute to ~ 433 degrees F at which time I dump the beans into my bean cooler. (Poppery 1 with the heater disconnected) The cooling takes about 5 minutes. I typically do two batches in a row so there is some time saving in that the first batch is cooling as the second batch is roasting. The first batch is typically decaff which has virtually no chaff so I don't have to dump the chaff cup between loads. Also no preheat is required for the second batch and the ramp to 225 F is much faster with the hot roaster. Decaff beans require less heat so doing the decaff batch first works out.
Phil
Snaxx Said:
Probably ever so simple Phil, to get Nesco to sell you what you need. Since you're an electrical engineer, you're probably quite knowledgeable and qualified to become PJK Appliance Repair, Enterprises, Services, or whatever you'd want to call yourself. Having a business presence usually gets many benefits from companies and wholesale houses that the ordinary guy off the street will never get.
I certainly agree with you that for a company to refuse to sell any parts one might need to fix a Nesco Roaster or any brand roaster is not wise. If one has the ability to fix things and is competent, it would seem obtaining repair parts from the company and replacing a defective part on an appliance would be preferable to continue using the device if the failure of the part was causing a safety issue due to exposed wiring, or abnormal arcing or sparking was occurring during use because of failed electrical insulators, or any other deficiency; because the company wouldn't sell their parts to an owner.
Also, I was wondering how your mods have improved your roaster. What is an average load you roast in there, and what is a maximum load you can roast? Are you limited in any way by high chaff coffees? What do your roasts seem to require for time, from startup time to the end of roast at the beginning of the cooling point?
oldgearhead Senior Member Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Posts: 353 Location: Go Colts! Expertise: I like coffee
Grinder: Virtuoso by Baratza Drip: Chemex,Dilongi DCM900 Roaster: 1/2K Fluid-bed
Posted Wed May 2, 2012, 8:49am Subject: Re: Nesco Professional Roaster on sale at Sears $122 shipped
Come on Phil I think its time for you to build your own. Then you can just pick up one of these at Grainger if you have a failure. So far, mine has 11 months and 140 pounds on it.
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