Breeze Senior Member Joined: 3 Dec 2006 Posts: 733 Location: St. Croix, V.I. Expertise: Pro Roaster
Espresso: Pasquini Livia S Grinder: Mazzer Mini/Rocky Drip: TechniVorm/Krups MB Roaster: Toper 1 kilo
Posted Tue May 17, 2011, 4:50pm Subject: Re: Question(s) on Toper Cafemino 1KG Roaster & Diedrich IR-1
Back after a period of being busy with coffee, restoration projects and off shore tasks.
Rob, glad you have your D unit up and running. Trying to hold costs here and have moved to SHRUB with less variety but reduced lb costs by moving 60# bags.
I can't say my methods/profiles are "world class" but pumping great beans through my Toper has my customer base pleased.
My business includes restoration of colonial structures, 35HP Tractor utilized road repairs on my mountain, off shore boat engineer and.....the best damn coffee on the island of St. Croix courtesy of Shrub (Sweet Maria) and Toper (Turkey).
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,017 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Wed May 18, 2011, 8:30am Subject: Re: Question(s) on Toper Cafemino 1KG Roaster & Diedrich IR-1
Breeze Said:
Back after a period of being busy with coffee, restoration projects and off shore tasks.
Rob, glad you have your D unit up and running. Trying to hold costs here and have moved to SHRUB with less variety but reduced lb costs by moving 60# bags.
I can't say my methods/profiles are "world class" but pumping great beans through my Toper has my customer base pleased.
My business includes restoration of colonial structures, 35HP Tractor utilized road repairs on my mountain, off shore boat engineer and.....the best damn coffee on the island of St. Croix courtesy of Shrub (Sweet Maria) and Toper (Turkey).
Glad you had some free time to post. I am still getting over the learning curve with the IR-1 and hope to make the summit by summer. I made a couple of orders from CS but when getting the 15lb vacuum bagged beans and no shipping deals like at SM's (I guess the deals don't apply to you, I imagine you cry yourself to sleep every night in your busy paradise over not getting shipping deals) it is cheaper to order 20lb bags from SM's for me. I did get 6lbs of Panama Gesha somewhere in 2010 from CS and hope they offer it again this year.
I didn't realize when researching for a roaster that the Cafemino did not have control over the burner. Would you shed a little light on how you control your roasts without giving away any of you trade secrets?
jammin Senior Member Joined: 25 Nov 2009 Posts: 658 Location: Boise Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Speedster, Cremina Grinder: K10, Vario-W with Ditting... Vac Pot: Hario Drip: manual Roaster: quest m3, hottop b
Posted Fri May 20, 2011, 8:44am Subject: Re: Question(s) on Toper Cafemino 1KG Roaster & Diedrich IR-1
germantownrob Said:
Even though I have control over heat I am only doing minor tweaks to it once drying phase is over and I use air flow to do much of the control ET. I used to adjust the heat much more when I first started using the IR-1 but found these profiles where much harder for me to repeat compared to using air flow to adjust ET.
Maybe I missed it, but I don't seem to see any mention of fan & convection with the commercial gas roasters. I was always under the impression that the fan was a great asset to transfer heat to the beans.
Wouldn't you want a lot of fan during the ramp to 1C in order get there quickly?
I also though that you would want to turn the fan down during finish to slow the transfer and RoR?
It seems that if you dropped the fan down going into 1C and cranked the heat down as well, the drum could carry some energy into the stretch and as the drum donated it's stored heat, the RoR would taper off for a nice smooth finish?
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,017 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Fri May 20, 2011, 10:26am Subject: Re: Question(s) on Toper Cafemino 1KG Roaster & Diedrich IR-1
jammin Said:
Maybe I missed it, but I don't seem to see any mention of fan & convection with the commercial gas roasters. I was always under the impression that the fan was a great asset to transfer heat to the beans.
Wouldn't you want a lot of fan during the ramp to 1C in order get there quickly?
I also though that you would want to turn the fan down during finish to slow the transfer and RoR?
It seems that if you dropped the fan down going into 1C and cranked the heat down as well, the drum could carry some energy into the stretch and as the drum donated it's stored heat, the RoR would taper off for a nice smooth finish?
The Diedrich Ir's have 20% air flow at all times going through the drum and can be increased to 50% and 80% so convection is taking place throughout the roast. The Ir's are also designed with heat sinks so that air flow is always heated before entering the drum so by adjusting the burner one has control over the amount of heat being used for convection as well as to the drum. Smoke is being produced after first crack and I don't want it effecting the flavors of the roast so that is why I use the 50% or 80% airflow after first crack, a lot of smoke is being created with 2.2lbs of beans. Diedrich recommends a long ramp from drying to first crack with a short finish (2-2.5min), he feels the long approach to 1C is where the flavors are being developed. I have not had much luck with this profile yet so I do a moderate ramp with a long finish for espresso (4-5min) and slightly shorter for drip (3-4min) airflow changes depending on bean and how fast I am coming into first crack. I am still stuck in the success of how I roasted with my Hottop so there is plenty more to learn about how to best use the control I have with this roaster.
FrankieD Senior Member Joined: 26 Jul 2010 Posts: 5 Location: South-Africa Expertise: Just starting
Posted Sun May 29, 2011, 3:22am Subject: Re: Question(s) on Toper Cafemino 1KG Roaster & Diedrich IR-1
I have made some progress with my Toper. The 500g batches seem to work well if you dump at 145deg C. Temp drops to about 117deg within 60 secs. I run with max airflow. 1st crack comes in around 6 min and 163 deg. Time wise it may still be a bit short as 7 to 8 min's are ideal. I shut the the burner of at 185deg C(7min's) and the temp still climbs to 200 before slowly starting to drop. 2nd Crack comes at about 12 mins and about 195 deg C which as far as I have read (Willem Boot) is quite OK. I have also played with dumping at 140 deg (shut off burner at 185)with similar results except that 2nd crack then comes at about 173 deg but still around 12 min's.
I did my first 1kg batch today and dumped at 150 deg which was way too low as 1st C only came 9mins and , I also shut the burner off at 185 (9min 30) but 2nd C only came at 20 min's! Will still have to play with this one.
Breeze Senior Member Joined: 3 Dec 2006 Posts: 733 Location: St. Croix, V.I. Expertise: Pro Roaster
Espresso: Pasquini Livia S Grinder: Mazzer Mini/Rocky Drip: TechniVorm/Krups MB Roaster: Toper 1 kilo
Posted Mon Jun 6, 2011, 4:51am Subject: Re: Question(s) on Toper Cafemino 1KG Roaster & Diedrich IR-1
germantownrob Said:
I didn't realize when researching for a roaster that the Cafemino did not have control over the burner. Would you shed a little light on how you control your roasts without giving away any of you trade secrets?
Ah but I do have control over the burner....on/off by way of the control panel temp setting. I always want max heat early in the roast so flame on with varying air damper settings to reach 1C as desired. Depending on "things" I can cycle flame off late in the roast as required to prolong period at and beyond 1C.
Shipping is a bitch here. I was ordering 20# lots from SM and they could fit it in a Large Flat Rate USPS box @$14 +/-. It was the per pound bean cost that started to catch up with me. 60# UPS ground lots to my ocean freight forwarder and ocean freight on the back end works out to be about the same per lb cost, shipping wise but lower bean cost from Shrub. We also deal with some of the most ignorant customs rules here ever but thank god, coffee is not subject to duty. Dealing with ICE makes you wonder whose government they work for. With friends like these, I don't need enemies. They charge us duty on materials that have been imported into the US proper and are being re-exported here, double duty, if you will! I just put China as origin on anything I purchase and ship as that's about the way it is these days. I did that on an small air conditioner and when they "investigated" and found that the GE unit was manufactured in Indonesia, they charged me a 20% penalty for a false custom's declaration. Try determining in advance, country of origin, on everything you purchase?????
runaro Senior Member Joined: 12 Feb 2009 Posts: 21 Location: Norway Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Marzocco GS3 Grinder: Compac K 10 WBC Drip: Hario Roaster: Toper Cafemino Gas
Posted Sun Jun 12, 2011, 10:20am Subject: Re: Question(s) on Toper Cafemino 1KG Roaster & Diedrich IR-1
Myself and a fellow Toper Cafemino Gas owner, Tony from South Africa, recently modified our roasters to increase the ability to control the temperature during roast. So far I am very pleased with the mod, it was fairly inexpencive, easy to implement and in combination with the Artisan roasting software it gives me total control of the roast profile :). The mod consist of a needle valve and a low pressure manometer installed between the Honeywell gas regulator and the burner (see picture). The gas regulator input is 30 mbar and with the needle valve I am able to control the gas pressure to the burner from max and down to 2 mbar. The flame is burning with a nice blue flame at any settings and so far there is no soot on the drum so I believe the combustion is OK. I have always found it difficult to control the temperature profile with the air valve, now I mainly keep it at a constant setting during roast to eliminate chaff and smoke. The needle valve control is very responsive and easy to use. I can recommend this mod to all Cafemino roasters.
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,017 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Mon Jun 13, 2011, 5:00am Subject: Re: Question(s) on Toper Cafemino 1KG Roaster & Diedrich IR-1
I finally got my NG line pressure up (no thanks to my gas company) to where it wants to be. What a difference it makes, I now have full control of a 1kg charge and easily can get the roast done in 16min/- with full control. It was frustrating to have a 1kg roaster and only be able to roast 1lb to get the results I wanted, I am in heaven now.
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