Posted Tue Jan 25, 2011, 3:05pm Subject: Next Gen Behmor 1600 Improvements, and other musings.
Love the roaster, but couple things I'd love to see in next generation Behmor:
1) Manual control mode based on P1, with P2 lengths of time. This includes four power levels: 50%, 70%, 85%, 100%, and changeable on the fly. The allowable length of time should be simply maxed out as if working with a 1lb batch and up to the user (if they want) to set a time limit. Just let it roast to a full 25 minutes - if you're not finishing the roast in that time, you're baking it anyway.
It would be nice to start a roast, keep an eye on the thermocouple, listen for the first hint of 1st crack, and THEN punch the 70% power button. Then be able to punch the 100% button, or goose the roast with 85% at my option, then back it back down if I want. If things get hairy, I can punch the 50% button - and of course at any time I can hit "cool".
Speaking of that, why not display the power level? It would be nice to know you're on 50, 70, 85 or 100% at any time.
of course, to control the roast, this means everyone should have:
2) an on board thermocouple. There's one in the system, why can't it just display the temperature? My K-type thermocouple is $25, (Cole-Parmer) and it works like a charm. The roaster ought to go into a cool mode if the thermocouple exceeds some agreed upon temp (probably not much north of 500ºF) and already has combustion detection protection built in.
3) How about an option to, or just simply reverse the time display? Love the machine, great value, hate the time display. I'm forever converting in my head, "what's the display gonna read on P2 when the power drops?, what's the display gonna read if the batch hits 1C at 8:25 into the roast?" Add time to the roast, and it changes the display time! Then you have to carry the changed time to "forward think" your roast.
Simply change it from countdown to count up. options to display in seconds or fractional minutes would be great, too. We all think time "into" the roast, time to 1C, etc. In a manual mode, we know there's a simple hard limit on roasting time, and leave it up to the user to do some adjustments.
4) since in my fantasy Behmor I have a manual setting on a more "serious hobby roaster", it would be even neater to have the times I change the roast (up to 4 or 5, maybe) logged so at the end I can see where I punched which button (like looking at lap times on a stopwatch), and a marker button for marking 1C and 2C noises (in my roasting notes, I pick up the temp every 15 seconds, and I keep track of cracks with a slash or x or dots kinda like a vertical histogram). When I'm done, I scroll through the "history", where it has the time and action, whether a power change, a 1c or 2c noise.
5) A quick release or way to get the drum out of the roaster without playing games. When I want to cool the beans, I want them cool NOW, not in 2 minutes, or 5 minutes. We don't want to melt the roaster's sensitive parts, but if you're getting the drum out, you HAVE to stop the roaster, pull the drum and get it cooling, then start it back up and cool it right away. Taking a rotating drum out = not recommended, it will stress the hell out of the motor (I suspect...) while you try to "pop" it out.
6) and lastly, isn't there possibly a way to get a bit more roasting power? It's operating with 525X2 or 1050 total Watt roasting elements (not sure the wattage of the afterburner, guessing about 600 watts). This is not quite enough power to get a full 1lb roast up and into 1C in 11 minutes for some of the denser beans (which facilitates 12.5 minutes to clear 1C, to get time for 2C and finish the roast in under 15 minutes). Another 250 Watts would be nice, and might even facilitate the ability to roast 20oz (to yield about 16 oz or 1 true lb of roasted) coffee. An extra power option that trades off the afterburner wattage? Just a thought.
Add $125 to the price with the above, and I believe I'd ebay my current Behmor 1600 and pick up one of these fictional Behmor 1950 models in a flash.
I love the chaff tray, and there's a big price gap from the Behmor 1600 to the next "1lb" hobby coffee roaster ($700's) so there's room to move up for those who love the smoke reduction features and chaff tray collection.
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Posted Tue Jan 25, 2011, 4:14pm Subject: Re: Next Gen Behmor 1600 Improvements, and other musings.
I'll add to that: I know the Behmor is well loved, but the form factor alone has kept me from it. Change it to a 'little drum roaster' form factor, similar to the Hot Top.
"Never drink more than two Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters, unless you are a thirty ton mega elephant with a case of bronchial pneumonia" - Zaphod Beeblebrox
KeithA Senior Member Joined: 23 Nov 2010 Posts: 33 Location: Meriden, CT Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: 2 1980's LP Europiccola's Grinder: Baratza Vario and Virtuoso,... Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster,... Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Wed Jan 26, 2011, 8:25am Subject: Re: Next Gen Behmor 1600 Improvements, and other musings.
P2 is by far the most frustrating part of the unit. Being able to manually drop the wattage and kick it back up to finish the roast, while preserving the overall time of the roast should keep the lawyers happy, I would think. That what this is all about anyway. Keeping the unit safe, which I have absolutely no problem with. I have no need for temp info (just another variable). The cracks are very easy to hear. As far as looks go...is there an eye roll smiley around here. Who cares what it looks like? It works like a champ!
harmolodic Senior Member Joined: 8 Aug 2006 Posts: 122 Location: DC Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Wed Jan 26, 2011, 11:32am Subject: Re: Next Gen Behmor 1600 Improvements, and other musings.
While it's fun to dream of additional functionality (I do too) the bottom line is that for $300 you get a roaster that easily does great roasts with little input from the user and does it again and again with repeatability. I've done over 300 pounds in 3 years and my ONLY disappointments were either subpar beans or user error.
Your $425 "Behmor Plus" might make an excellent additional product for the line, but I'd hate to see the less expensive, streamlined, no-bells-and-whistles version vanish.
mbrowne999 Senior Member Joined: 1 Nov 2005 Posts: 53 Location: Down the street Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Wed Jan 26, 2011, 1:20pm Subject: Re: Next Gen Behmor 1600 Improvements, and other musings.
harmolodic Said:
While it's fun to dream of additional functionality (I do too) the bottom line is that for $300 you get a roaster that easily does great roasts with little input from the user and does it again and again with repeatability. I've done over 300 pounds in 3 years and my ONLY disappointments were either subpar beans or user error.
Your $425 "Behmor Plus" might make an excellent additional product for the line, but I'd hate to see the less expensive, streamlined, no-bells-and-whistles version vanish.
I don't know that it would add much cost to allow users to manually control the power setting. Just that alone would improve the functionality greatly. I am a satisfied user, but really want more control of the temps.
KeithA Senior Member Joined: 23 Nov 2010 Posts: 33 Location: Meriden, CT Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: 2 1980's LP Europiccola's Grinder: Baratza Vario and Virtuoso,... Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster,... Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Wed Jan 26, 2011, 1:28pm Subject: Re: Next Gen Behmor 1600 Improvements, and other musings.
harmolodic Said:
While it's fun to dream of additional functionality (I do too) the bottom line is that for $300 you get a roaster that easily does great roasts with little input from the user and does it again and again with repeatability. I've done over 300 pounds in 3 years and my ONLY disappointments were either subpar beans or user error.
Your $425 "Behmor Plus" might make an excellent additional product for the line, but I'd hate to see the less expensive, streamlined, no-bells-and-whistles version vanish.
People tend to look at a raw cost such as you are.
Say it's $20 more in raw materials to manufacture.
You then need to consider: 1) Amortized R&D costs (years)- engineers both electrical and electronic, draftsman, software designers 2) Mock-up costs 3) test costs 4) new certifcation(UL/ETL etc) costs 5) new insurance costs 6) larger tariffs, duties and import fees 7) new tooling 8) cost of money 9) greater fees to assemble etc etc etc
The above could easily be $300-400,000.
Those all have to be figured in and then a return on the investment.
When averaged into a set build you could actually have an average cost per unit increase of $100-120 before dealer or manufacturing profits are added.
It isn't just the cost of a part that needs to be looked at, but all of the above and more, such as total available markets. If one considers the limited market coffeer roasters has, all of the costs 1-8 need to be of a greater average per unit.
Then you add in redesigns for 220volt systems..
To get 70% of the wish list I'd venture to guess you'd be looking at $150 price increase possibly a bit more
Posted Wed Jan 26, 2011, 10:19pm Subject: Re: Next Gen Behmor 1600 Improvements, and other musings.
Why wait for the next rev? I would wire some type of attenuator directly on the heater element, select 1lb P1 and do the heater control manually/directly. I would also add some type of thermometer but could likely get by with an environment probe only.
Prof Senior Member Joined: 10 Sep 2004 Posts: 632 Location: Seattle Expertise: Pro Roaster
Espresso: PV Lusso, Enrico of Italy Grinder: Pharos 696, Zass Drip: Brazen, Aeropress Roaster: Behmor, TO/SC, Poppery I
Posted Wed Jan 26, 2011, 10:55pm Subject: Re: Next Gen Behmor 1600 Improvements, and other musings.
mbrowne999 Said:
I don't know that it would add much cost to allow users to manually control the power setting. Just that alone would improve the functionality greatly. I am a satisfied user, but really want more control of the temps.
You know that Joe reads this stuff, don't you? I too hope that a new Behmor comes out with more temperature control.
P2 is not that hard, assuming you do the first batch of that bean using P1 to see when 1C kicks in. You can open and close the door during P1 to lengthen the duration before P2 comes along.
Then you have your data to get P2 working to your beans' advantage. It's like ANY machine: You have to get to know it.
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