KeithA Senior Member Joined: 23 Nov 2010 Posts: 33 Location: Meriden, CT Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: 2 1980's LP Europiccola's Grinder: Baratza Vario and Virtuoso,... Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster,... Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Thu Jan 27, 2011, 1:00am Subject: Re: Next Gen Behmor 1600 Improvements, and other musings.
I am also a door opener. I gave up on P2. Having it fixed is just too difficult to time perfectly. For me, roasting is a lot like cooking. I don't worry about the precise temperature of the pan or the exact degree of the steak. Just cook it until it is perfect. Like you said, after a while you get a feel for these things. I find myself definitely in the "art" camp on this. I just want fresh, high quality coffee. SM beans and the Behmor hasn't let me down yet.
I am 99% happy with the roaster. But I suppose we can dream. :)
Posted Thu Jan 27, 2011, 5:02am Subject: Re: Next Gen Behmor 1600 Improvements, and other musings.
onthemoors Said:
...
You then need to consider: 1) Amortized R&D costs (years)- engineers both electrical and electronic, draftsman, software designers 2) Mock-up costs 3) test costs 4) new certifcation(UL/ETL etc) costs 5) new insurance costs 6) larger tariffs, duties and import fees 7) new tooling 8) cost of money 9) greater fees to assemble etc etc etc ...
mbrowne999 Senior Member Joined: 1 Nov 2005 Posts: 53 Location: Down the street Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Fri Jan 28, 2011, 12:59am Subject: Re: Next Gen Behmor 1600 Improvements, and other musings.
Prof Said:
You know that Joe reads this stuff, don't you? I too hope that a new Behmor comes out with more temperature control.
P2 is not that hard, assuming you do the first batch of that bean using P1 to see when 1C kicks in. You can open and close the door during P1 to lengthen the duration before P2 comes along.
Then you have your data to get P2 working to your beans' advantage. It's like ANY machine: You have to get to know it.
Yep. Lot's of creativity goes into workarounds. Maybe Joe will share some thoughts about better user control hypothetically, all standard disclaimers, no relation at all to any Behmor living or dead.
Posted Sun Jan 30, 2011, 1:56pm Subject: Re: Next Gen Behmor 1600 Improvements, and other musings.
Keep in mind that there is greater competition at higher price points. For $300 there really isn't any other drum roaster that the Behmor has to compete with, and I think most will agree that the Behmor offers a lot more value than lower cost roasters given its performance and capacity. If you start piling on the costs the picture changes a lot. Add $150 or so and now the Behmor is competing directly with the Gene Cafe. Add $250 or more and it's competing with the Hottop.
I think that is an important point. Joe identified a market niche and filled it nicely. It is a lot of bang for the buck! If the Behmor was the price of a HotTop, I probably would have bought a HotTop.
Endo Senior Member Joined: 26 Jun 2008 Posts: 804 Location: , location, location. Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: machine is < important than... Grinder: !
Posted Sun Jan 30, 2011, 5:54pm Subject: Re: Next Gen Behmor 1600 Improvements, and other musings.
onthemoors Said:
You then need to consider: 1) Amortized R&D costs (years)- engineers both electrical and electronic, draftsman, software designers 2) Mock-up costs 3) test costs 4) new certifcation(UL/ETL etc) costs 5) new insurance costs 6) larger tariffs, duties and import fees 7) new tooling 8) cost of money 9) greater fees to assemble etc etc etc
amajors Senior Member Joined: 26 Aug 2004 Posts: 41 Location: Atlanta, GA or Panama City Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Rancilio Audry Grinder: Mazzer, Rocky for work Drip: Aeropress for work Roaster: Behmor
Posted Thu Mar 3, 2011, 3:05pm Subject: Re: Next Gen Behmor 1600 Improvements, and other musings.
Why doesn't this thread have any info on modding a Behmor? Am I the only person who'd like to upgrade his out of warranty machine with better lights or consider insulating the box somehow? There are plenty of threads on modding espresso machines!
I'd like to add another light on the right side, placed similar to the one currently on the left. Why? Because I like to watch things roast, even if we roast mainly by ear.
mbrowne999 Senior Member Joined: 1 Nov 2005 Posts: 53 Location: Down the street Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Fri Mar 4, 2011, 1:32pm Subject: Re: Next Gen Behmor 1600 Improvements, and other musings.
amajors Said:
Why doesn't this thread have any info on modding a Behmor? Am I the only person who'd like to upgrade his out of warranty machine with better lights or consider insulating the box somehow? There are plenty of threads on modding espresso machines!
Well, 'cuz people were musing about the next generation Behmor -- what we'd like to see built-in :) There should definitely be a modding thread, though, since there are many creative workarounds in place though mainly for the current model's limited access to temperature control.
Hi Keith... Coffee roasting for me is a very hands-on process...sounds like for you too.
I started 'roasting life' with a popper and then jumped right into 3 Fresh Roast original Units with modded aluminum bases (the original were not metal), and separate circuited Variacs on each of them.
My wife called it the 'dance of the beans'. I'd start it with just enough heat to churn the beans, and then turn Variacs down after a minute to about 70volts so the beans just barely trickled. I also propped the roasters at an angle (because the beans circulated better), and then increased the speed/heat/power (they all worked in unison), and then after I reached 1st crack, I'd back them way back to barely trickling for 2-3 minutes. Then I'd turn it up to about 128volts and push them til the thermometers were 425°F and climbing!
About half way through we had to turn the timer knob/switch/elements back on because the timing mechanism didn't go far enough for an extended batch.
When I finally hit ''cool'' I'd wait for the chamber to cool just enough to get it out of the base (because the metal bases would swell under heat) and pour beans into my 5 gallon plastic pail shop vac/colander bean-cooler. And I had 6 chambers so I could do back to back roasts and do 12 batches in a row (3 roasters times 4 batches). Lot of work for a pound and a half of beans!
Each roaster had holes drilled in lids with thermometers cemented in the lid (tip in the bean mass), and I could stetch a batch of espresso to 12-14 minutes. Left to it's own devices at full power, the first couple iterations of Fresh Roasts would have been in a rolling 2nd crack in about 5-6 minutes.
So what's a little door opening? It's just the most inexpensive and practical solution to controlling the roast...
I open the door about 10 seconds into 1st crack for a full minute, and then I open it again (permanently) 15 seconds after I hit 'cool'.
If I leave the door closed during the cooling cycle the chamber and beans are still above 120°F when it's done. If I open the door, it's room temp (garage temp). I like the beans to hit room temp much quicker than when left to their own devices.
I don't care if Joe never improves the unit (though I suspect he will). I don't think just cutting the element power manually would accomplish what my 1-minute-door-open does.
IMAWriter Senior Member Joined: 4 Jul 2002 Posts: 5,464 Location: Brentwood, TN Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Nothing at the moment Grinder: Vario-W,Preciso-Esatto/KyM... Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup Drip: Brazen.Chemex, Hario, Clever... Roaster: Behmor 1600, CO/UFO combo
Posted Sat Mar 5, 2011, 10:39pm Subject: Re: Next Gen Behmor 1600 Improvements, and other musings.
Netphilosopher Said:
snipped
I love the chaff tray, and there's a big price gap from the Behmor 1600 to the next "1lb" hobby coffee roaster ($700's) so there's room to move up for those who love the smoke reduction features and chaff tray collection.
Well, if you're talking about the HotTop, it roasts NOWHERE near 1 lb, and the preferred unit is $800. The M1, or whatever it's called is also not practically a 1lb roaster, and while perhaps a bit more towards a professional sample roaster is NOT for everyone, as it has a much steeper learning curve. From the vids I've seen, and some commentary from, I believe Jim Schulman, it seems like it can do a very nice job.
The features you'd like (NetPhilospher) are those of a way more expensive roaster than the 1600, but i believe if anybody could do it, and do it fir a reasonable, maybe even a spectacular price would be Joe. Hanging out with him at SCAA 2 years ago, I can tell you what an intense and focused person Joe is, especially about his roaster, and his customers. yes, I'm probably a bit biased, and have not used a Hottop (which I'm sure does an excellent job) but I have no reason to change. I've done over 400 roasts on my 1600.
BTW, I'm probably in the minority (hah, what's new...)but i actually like the countdown timer. To respond to a comment, I believe allowing a user to set a max time limit over Joe's set max time invites disaster...a possible...no make that PROBABLE fire by more than one user, especially at 500f temperature you propose. besides, anything over 18 minute roasts, IMO should be tossed.
However, I really feel you've described, for the most part a dream roaster, and if it could be done with a price point even $150-200 more than the current 1600 would be a tremendous achievement. I believe the current 1600 deserves kudo's.
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