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Discussions > Coffee > Home Roast > The Quest M3...  
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onthemoors
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Sep 2009
Posts: 104
Location: Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Zassenhaus
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Posted Sun Jun 6, 2010, 1:11am
Subject: Re: The Quest M3 Roaster
 

Dave I believe you misunderstood the meaning of "can't get"

Ms. Yu can correct me if Iím wrong but what she is saying is the roaster fails to meet minimum standards and canít get certified.

No certificates, no insurance coverage of any kind
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DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,404
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Jun 6, 2010, 4:41am
Subject: Re: The Quest M3 Roaster
 

onthemoors Said:

Dave I believe you misunderstood the meaning of "can't get"

Ms. Yu can correct me if Iím wrong but what she is saying is the roaster fails to meet minimum standards and canít get certified.

No certificates, no insurance coverage of any kind

Posted June 6, 2010 link

Anything is possible, but I don't think I misinterpreted her? Unfortunately there is more I would like to say, but can't.
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onthemoors
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Sep 2009
Posts: 104
Location: Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Zassenhaus
Drip: Bunn
Roaster: Hottop, Behmor
Posted Sun Jun 6, 2010, 9:35am
Subject: Re: The Quest M3 Roaster
 

It was intended to be rhetorical and an invitation to Ms. Yu to clarify "can't get" for all the interested parties to be given an exact reason why it fails to be certified.
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steamer
Senior Member
steamer
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 900
Location: socal
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Expobar Brewtus IV R
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-B Baratza...
Vac Pot: Krubs Moka Brew, vacPot
Drip: TechV, and many more
Roaster: Hottop
Posted Tue Jun 8, 2010, 3:29pm
Subject: Re: The Quest M3 Roaster
 

Understand what CE means and what is required is a list not worth posting, but, every electrical item must have a certifcate of compliance, which in some area means the manufacture of said equipment needs it tested to CE standards, meaning certain requirement to make it to the CE list of affectable item. The thing with the M3 is that not every item on it may or may not be CE certifed or can get CE certiifed for what ever reason. I work for a company that ships to Europe and Turkey is the worst for CE and everything stops at the border and certifaction needs to be inhand for it to enter. Even though our equipment is CE certified, the items that belong must be also. If we have a controller go out and needs replacement we can not send a regular replacement, we need to send a CE complaint replacement with papers saying so. So when they say they cant it may mean the manufacture of said part can not get CE cerified for some reason. Quality if not a reason for not getting a CE cert.
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onthemoors
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Sep 2009
Posts: 104
Location: Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Zassenhaus
Drip: Bunn
Roaster: Hottop, Behmor
Posted Tue Jun 8, 2010, 4:32pm
Subject: Re: The Quest M3 Roaster
 

True enough quality is not a parameter for approvals, in the case of small home electrics, safety is. This would especially be the case in small home electrics that produce high heat.
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DavecUK
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Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,404
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Tue Jun 8, 2010, 7:40pm
Subject: Re: The Quest M3 Roaster
 

steamer Said:

Understand what CE means and what is required is a list not worth posting, but, every electrical item must have a certifcate of compliance, which in some area means the manufacture of said equipment needs it tested to CE standards, meaning certain requirement to make it to the CE list of affectable item. The thing with the M3 is that not every item on it may or may not be CE certifed or can get CE certiifed for what ever reason.

Posted June 8, 2010 link

Do you own a Quest M3 or have you examined one?

You seem quite certain that the components on the roaster have to be individually CE certified. Which directives do you refer to and where is this specifically stated?

I ask, because I specifically investigated getting the Quest CE certified for a reseller, so the mark could be applied in the UK prior to sale.
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steamer
Senior Member
steamer
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 900
Location: socal
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Expobar Brewtus IV R
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-B Baratza...
Vac Pot: Krubs Moka Brew, vacPot
Drip: TechV, and many more
Roaster: Hottop
Posted Wed Jun 9, 2010, 3:35pm
Subject: Re: The Quest M3 Roaster
 

I do not have a M3, but my company sells equipment that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars each. Some customer require CE specs, but are not governed by CE certifaction or a watch dog. Other countries madate the CE spec's and yes it is for safety and document control, when it comes to finger pointing europe is right there. There may be nothing wrong with the M3 and may never burn or short., if it cuts a finger off, CE has no bearing what so ever. When we ship for CE spec, even the wire and its color code must match to spec, meaning a green wire with a yellow stripe is ground, but a green wire could mean power also. But in USA it is ground. They use a special color of blue for power per voltage, where here in USA it can vary, like in a control panel.  This is all part of CE spec, now this is also price control, there may be CE spec parts out there, but it may double the price or more. It is a trade off. We have had parts held in customs because the proper papers where not sent with it, the CE label means nothing to customs till they get the proper papers saying it has been tested and certified.
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DavecUK
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Joined: 21 Sep 2005
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Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Wed Jun 9, 2010, 4:27pm
Subject: Re: The Quest M3 Roaster
 

I am afraid your reply is of little help to me and is not in line with my understanding of CE requirements or rules as it applies to the M3. Perhaps the equipment you sell for 100s of thousands of dollars (I don't have any idea what it is), does not fall under the low voltage equipment directive and has a different set of rules applied?
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germantownrob
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germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
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Location: Philadelphia
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Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
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Posted Wed Jun 9, 2010, 6:48pm
Subject: Re: The Quest M3 Roaster
 

msyen Said:

Dear Davec:
I represent QUEST M3 to post a reply for thank you for your review regarding M3. And we'd like to clarify the last point you mentioned, since we are a small studio that produce hand-made QUEST M3, we can't apply CE certificate.

Posted June 2, 2010 link

That is enough for me. If I didn't need a bigger capacity roaster I would be purchasing 1 or 2 quests m3's since they don't have all the safety alarms and shut offs to make it annoying to use. To get what I wanted I spent far more money then most home roasters would ever spend and I was able to purchase an American made product which may not be important to everyone but is to me. I used to say Hottop had the the best home roaster but IMO the Quest beats it and I don't even own one! I don't need to own one to know that complete control over heat and good air flow without the safety BS will allow back to back roasts, profile control, and repeatability which allows a home roaster to roast more batches per hour with better control and top notch results. If someone gets all the CE requirements needed I would think it would be pushing it further away from being the roaster that it is but that is just a roasters opinion.


EDIT: I would like to add that safety features are not a bad thing to those that don't want to watch their roast from beginning to end since they are there to keep you from burning your roaster up or worse.
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DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,404
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu Jun 10, 2010, 6:10am
Subject: Re: The Quest M3 Roaster
 

germantownrob Said:

If someone gets all the CE requirements needed I would think it would be pushing it further away from being the roaster that it is but that is just a roasters opinion.


EDIT: I would like to add that safety features are not a bad thing to those that don't want to watch their roast from beginning to end since they are there to keep you from burning your roaster up or worse.

Posted June 9, 2010 link

My god there appears to be a complete misunderstanding about what the CE requirement is, based on what some other person has stated before you......I am almost certain the Quest can get CE certification as is, CE is not about complex safety devices that are unnecessary. Think about it, you can burn yourself on a cooker, you can leave a wash cloth or a pan of hot oil on a cooker and burn the house down. CE does not require these cookers to automatically switch off if hot oil gets above a certain temperature or a fire breaks out. Quite frankly someone who I believe probably knows little about CE has set the cat among the pigeons here. I asked what directives they referred to and for more information and I got nothing and I repeat the CE mark can be obtained by a UK company and applied in the UK, even for a product they do not produce!

To give a few safety related examples of products that are happily CE marked:

There are quite a few prosumer coffee machines that do not use a dual pole switch, in Europe this can be deadly, because in the Netherlands, they could actually be plugged in with the plug reversed (same as wiring a plug incorrectly in the UK). If you have 2 machines side by side, one with the plug reversed and a fault develops, you can potentially electrocute yourself between the two machines and no RCD or GFI will help you.

Some Machines even when switched off at the switch are still live inside on some of the wiring and need to be unplugged from the mains.

When younger I learnt that it's good practice to ALWAYS make the earth cable longer than the live and neutral in a device, this way if the cable is pulled, the earth cable is the last thing to leave the device, once the live and neutral are well clear. I once inspected an Iron that had given someone an electric shock. The earth, live and neutral cables, were exactly the same length, they had pulled out from the base, but the live cables had made contact with the metal components of the iron one last time on the way out.....had the earth been 3 cm longer, this could not have happened.

Sure you can't sell something that it blatantly unsafe, but it all has to be in context and be reasonable......cars kill millions each year, but airbags are not compulsory in a vehicle, in the UK they are not even part of the annual MOT check and if the light is on to say they are not working, the car still passes. proper 5 point harnesses would radically reduce the number of injuries after accidents, as opposed to ordinary seatbelts.......BUT, cars still get their CE approvals, and even crash test approvals.
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