Posted Fri Nov 6, 2009, 3:57pm Subject: Home Roasting Blues...
Just a moment I've experienced that got me a little down on my home roasting...
I've been only home roasting (popcorn popper, genecafe) for less than 2 years now and have been sufficiently (or so I thought) content with the results I was acheiving - saving $ on buying green, always having fresh roasted coffee on hand knowing exactly which date it was roasted, and the pleasant satisfaction of sipping on your own hand crafted brew from green to cup (thanks to the coffee farmers and importers/distributers)..... until you buy that pound of professionaly artisan roasted coffee that kind of awakens you from your peacefull home roasting slumber (Thanks a lot Klatch's Belle espresso...). I mean, my home roasted stuff is pretty good, but compared to the pros, its kind of like comparing a supermarket bought steak grilled at home vs going out to dinner to a prime steakhouse. Both are great, but most often, the steakhouse is superb. (maybe I need to invest in a new grill and find grillgeek.com?)
My thoughts are, do some of you guys truly believe you have home roasted beans that are on par (or maybe even better) with the pros or maybe 1 in 10 home roasts can compete or are the pros on a completely different level no matter how much we geek out or throw money at our roasting equipment.
Another question, for you homeroasters, how often do you go out and buy professionaly artisan roasted beans? And do you do so to compare to your own roasts to maybe learn something different in how to roast/blend your own beans or to just simply experience coffee on a different level?
Don't worry, I won't stop home roasting but just curious where the rest of you stand on satisfaction from home roasting.
gime2much Senior Member Joined: 10 Dec 2004 Posts: 1,397 Location: Sunny S Fl Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Pavoni, Astoria comm, 2... Grinder: La Pavoni Zip, Bunn... Drip: Bunn comm Roaster: Popcorn popper (air),co/ufo
Posted Fri Nov 6, 2009, 4:42pm Subject: Re: Home Roasting Blues...
First let me hit you with this thought. Beef in restaurants (in the better ones at least) is one grade higher than grocery store beef. When my steaks are beat out by a steakhouse, I know that the cut of beef was the problem. Having a friend that owned and operated 3 different butcher shops in the St. Louis area to offer suggestions on picking the right piece of beef and how to watch for flaws has helped. Thanks Al.
In respect to SOs, if I rated the best roasted beans I've purchased at 100 then 95% of my home roasts would rate at least a 92. Several of the coffees that came from very respected vendors would only rate a 85 IMHO.
Buying the best greens available, having as much control and feedback from your roaster as possible and really paying attention to the process is what it's all about.
Blending for drip vac and press pot is pretty easy to pick up but blending for espresso is proving to be more difficult for me. Oh I can get a decent one once in a while but overall I prefer to leave this part to the pros.
Edit. Almost forgot this part....I purchase roasted blends and s.o. at least once per month from roasters reputed to be the best in the US to use as a benchmark and to see if I'm missing anything.
Posted Fri Nov 6, 2009, 5:29pm Subject: Re: Home Roasting Blues...
gime2much Said:
Buying the best greens available, having as much control and feedback from your roaster and really paying attention to the process is what it's all about.
I know I have much to learn in regards to roasting and espresso and have only hit the tip of the iceberg here but I will definitely continue to fight the good fight in search of the perfect cup.
Just curious, as a meat lover myself, would you care to impart your beefy wisdom to us? Choice pickings, things to avoid... etc.
JKalpin Senior Member Joined: 28 Dec 2008 Posts: 242 Location: Thornhill, Ontario Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Aerobie Aeropress Grinder: Baratza Maestro Plus Vac Pot: Yama 5-Cup Drip: Bunn Roaster: Freshroast Plus 8
Posted Sat Nov 7, 2009, 5:26am Subject: Re: Home Roasting Blues...
The COSTCO near us is reputed to have 'good beef'. So I bought a small rib-roast from them. I made it last night using one of these digital roasting thermometers ($15). The setting on the thermometer for 'rare' is 140F. From previous failures I knew that 140F and 135F were still ...not... rare so I pulled the roast at 132F, wrapped it in foil and let it sit for half an hour. It was much better but I should have pulled it at 130F.
In case you think this is OT, in fact, it's right on topic for several reasons:
Failures are important. The more mistakes we puzzle out and correct, the better our coffee (or steak) gets.
The reason for roasting rare (pink, not raw) is that it is the 'sweet-spot' in the roast, where it is tender and juicy and flavorful. Whichever way we roast coffee and whichever bean we use, we are also trying to find that 'sweet spot'. (As an aside, I have a cousin who prefers his beef well done; his mother burned everything; it's an inherited character flaw.)
With my FR+8 and unusually high line voltage, most of my probs are that it roasts too fast. I am trying various remedies to fix that. What happens is that I'm roasting just into the 2nd crack ...but things are happening so fast... that frequently I over-roast and miss that 'sweet spot'. That's similar to over-roasting a rib-roast.
Posted Sat Nov 7, 2009, 6:05am Subject: Re: Home Roasting Blues...
When I am making a prime rib, I pull it from the oven at about 115-120 degrees. It continues to go up another five degrees or so as it sits for 30 minutes before slicing.
Posted Sat Nov 7, 2009, 8:02am Subject: Re: Home Roasting Blues...
MGLloyd Said:
When I am making a prime rib, I pull it from the oven at about 115-120 degrees. It continues to go up another five degrees or so as it sits for 30 minutes before slicing.
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 375 Location: Phialadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: N.S. Oscar Grinder: Vario, Virtuoso Drip: pour over Roaster: HotTop B, Behmor, pan on the...
Posted Sat Nov 7, 2009, 8:26am Subject: Re: Home Roasting Blues...
While I love beef and to cook let me try and bring this back on topic, lol.
As a cook I accept I am not a chef, as a home roaster I accept I am not an artisan roaster, I just do not have the experience nor the education to know all the in's and out's a pro would know, this doesn't keep me from feeling very smug about my roasts or the way I cook meat. I buy artisan roasts to keep me honest about my abilities but there isn't one I am satisfied enough to say "I will only drink this for now on", they are beautiful to look at, smell, and drink but as a home roaster I can tweak the roast profile and change the results of the cup with my own roasts.
wideasleep1 Senior Member Joined: 19 Feb 2005 Posts: 1,057 Location: Sausalito,Ca Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: VBMDoubleDomo Grinder: Mahlkoenig K30 Vario Vac Pot: nope Drip: Bodum Press Roaster: IR1 and 2,SC/TO,Behmor
Posted Sat Nov 7, 2009, 6:41pm Subject: Re: Home Roasting Blues...
Like cooking, use the finest quality ingredients you can get, then prepare them with as much talent and passion as you can muster. Rinse and repeat, while simultaneously enjoying the 'fruits' of others labor, as a comparison. I just finished a 1/2 lb bag of Blue Bottle Sidamo...it was certainly good, and near great...but it was indeed different than the Sidamos I roast, and perhaps was roasted a bit less dark than I prefer: BB's was C+/FC, where I prefer a FC/FC+. With concurrent testing, your palate can only gain with new experiences...buy 'pro' roasts at least once a month, and try to buy a blend or SO that is near what you are currently roasting. :)
Posted Sat Nov 7, 2009, 7:49pm Subject: Re: Home Roasting Blues...
Thanks for the responses everyone, very helpful.
When experimenting with a new bean, how many roast cycles do you usually go through until you discover the optimal roast profile for that bean? I find myself going through trial and error numerous times and still second guess myself whether or not my best roast can be improved. As the number of variables are endless, it's very difficult to confidently say I've "nailed" that bean down. But don't get me wrong, trial and error isn't all that bad, most roasts are still excellent in the cup.
JKalpin Senior Member Joined: 28 Dec 2008 Posts: 242 Location: Thornhill, Ontario Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Aerobie Aeropress Grinder: Baratza Maestro Plus Vac Pot: Yama 5-Cup Drip: Bunn Roaster: Freshroast Plus 8
Posted Sat Nov 7, 2009, 8:24pm Subject: Re: Home Roasting Blues...
Fatnat79 ...There are 2 reliable signposts in the roasting process: The 1st Crack and the 2nd Crack. My best roasts are just before the commencement of the 2CR. But how do you guess that without being into it? Timing the roast doesn't do it. Too much depends on the temperature of the roaster before you begin.
I find that bean temperature (if you can put a thermocouple into the roast, somehow) is the most reliable way.
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