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How a home roaster cannot compare to a high tech commericial roaster
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DarkMajestic
Senior Member


Joined: 9 May 2006
Posts: 836
Location: Nevada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quckmill Vetrano
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Roaster: Behmor & Cajun Pot.
Posted Wed Jun 10, 2009, 7:42pm
Subject: Re: How a home roaster cannot compare to a high tech commericial roaster
 

germantownrob Said:

What if you travel some where and can't take equipment with you? All I need is a way to make fire, a pan, some greens and I can make a great cup of Joe. I could use more practice with this method but I can at least count on good results.

Posted June 10, 2009 link

There is a lot of value in that statement though my Behmor roast far out number my cast iron pot roast. Though each roast method brings out different taste from a bean. I think the more "primative" methods .. that is older methods bring out a lost .. richer coffee character that is left behind even by pro roasters. It's as if when roasting headed in the direction of the commercial drum roaster coffee changed.

To go back to this older character may be the whole point of home roasting yet we try so hard to achieve commercial results.

I will drink any roaster's coffee and make up my own mind of how it tastes, some make me realize how much more I need to learn.

Great attitude.

Cheers ..
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wbaguhn
Senior Member
wbaguhn
Joined: 16 Feb 2009
Posts: 980
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Expertise: I like coffee

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Posted Thu Jun 11, 2009, 2:56pm
Subject: Re: How a home roaster unit may not compare to a high tech commericial roaster
 

espressoaddict Said:

We will get there at some point, just not now. I'm perfectly happy enjoying what master roasters offer.

Posted June 7, 2009 link

We have a limited selection of roasteries around here (OK, fine - 7 reasonably local roasters that I can think of that have local outlets).  6 of those don't like to say what the roast dates on the beans are.  That crosses them off the list in my book.  (OK, not quite, but it pushes them down on the preference list.  I did go buy 2 pounds of "ok" stuff this morning because we were out at the office, and I haven't had much time at home lately to roast.)

I started home roasting exactly 1 day after I got a batch of woefully underroasted beans from the one of the local places.  I went to talk to their master roaster about it, they said basically "yes, that batch met our target standard for that origin - very very light."  It was... lacking, in many ways, to my taste.  I think it was the afternoon of the day when I talked to their roaster that I drove over to the local green warehouse, bought greens, and gave a new honorable purpose to what had been a lowly popcorn popper.

What you get by home roasting:
- an appreciation of the many ways a roast can go wrong
- a taste for fresh coffee
- fresh coffee
- variety (the "oh, why not - sure, give me a few pounds of that exotic I've never heard of before - it's only $10" - the greens warehouse I go to has something like 35 varieties on hand (just counted - 38, plus decafs), vs the local roastery might have 8, 4 of which are fresh)

Let me carry your statement farther - why would I buy a coffee maker, espresso machine, grinder, and learn how to operate, clean and maintain them... when there are very skilled baristas just ten minutes away?
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espressoaddict
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Joined: 18 Mar 2009
Posts: 346
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Posted Thu Jun 11, 2009, 6:16pm
Subject: Re: How a home roaster unit may not compare to a high tech commericial roaster
 

wbaguhn Said:

We have a limited selection of roasteries around here (OK, fine - 7 reasonably local roasters that I can think of that have local outlets).  6 of those don't like to say what the roast dates on the beans are.  That crosses them off the list in my book.  (OK, not quite, but it pushes them down on the preference list.  I did go buy 2 pounds of "ok" stuff this morning because we were out at the office, and I haven't had much time at home lately to roast.)

What you get by home roasting:
- an appreciation of the many ways a roast can go wrong
- a taste for fresh coffee
- fresh coffee
- variety (the "oh, why not - sure, give me a few pounds of that exotic I've never heard of before - it's only $10" - the greens warehouse I go to has something like 35 varieties on hand (just counted - 38, plus decafs), vs the local roastery might have 8, 4 of which are fresh)

Let me carry your statement farther - why would I buy a coffee maker, espresso machine, grinder, and learn how to operate, clean and maintain them... when there are very skilled baristas just ten minutes away?

Posted June 11, 2009 link

That's great you have your reasons why you choose to roast your own.  I respect that alright.  But if you remember my words, We will get there AT SOME POINT, just not now...

You truly have very valid reasons why to roast, but don't forget the upfront costs for the roaster, electricity, time and then then trial and error you must go through to achieve this result and cost saving alternative.  I know this is not the avenue most go this route.  Be realistic here, this is a VERY strong passion you enjoy.  It's like fishing in the waters, you don't buy the gear, boat, permit, and expensive fuel to save money because what you catch in the water is nearly free (you would think) and it will be the freshest right?  Why not just save the time and buy at your nearest super market right.   It's not as fresh, as what you can catch in the open waters, but it's not as expensive as buying all the requirements to go fishing.

Right now, I actually talk to the roaster reps in Seattle, Portland and more.  I'm spoiled alright.  All I have to do is alternate visiting any of the local roasters and when I get my 1 lb beans, it was roasted that same day.  How do I know, I know the roasters and plus it's stamped on the bag.  By the time, the 2 week freshness period has expired, I'm already done with that bag and ready to try a different roaster.  Even have the option to just buy 1/4 a lb just so I don't waste my money if I don't like it.  Right now my roasters I frequent are Cafe Vita and Stumptown Roasters.  There are others on my list.  If your roast is really better than them, you might try and quit your day job and compete.  What I don't have to worry about is the upfront costs.  Yeah, I pay for a little overhead for the beans than you do, but it's justified.  I can think of the additional overhead would be for them roasting my beans for me.  Plus I'm at their designated drop off location every week, so not even gas is considered an expense.  I look at the convenience not having to roast beans having an already busy life style.  I'll spend that doing other important things.

Notice the bag below, as I mentioned it was just roasted today.

espressoaddict: freshly_roasted.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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Prof
Senior Member
Prof
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 712
Location: Seattle
Expertise: Pro Roaster

Espresso: PV Lusso
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Roaster: Behmor 1600+
Posted Thu Jun 11, 2009, 9:52pm
Subject: Re: How a home roaster unit may not compare to a high tech commericial roaster
 

espressoaddict Said:

That's great you have your reasons why you choose to roast your own.  I respect that alright.  But if you remember my words, We will get there AT SOME POINT, just not now...

You truly have very valid reasons why to roast, but don't forget the upfront costs for the roaster, electricity, time and then then trial and error you must go through to achieve this result and cost saving alternative.  I know this is not the avenue most go this route.  Be realistic here, this is a VERY strong passion you enjoy.  It's like fishing in the waters, you don't buy the gear, boat, permit, and expensive fuel to save money because what you catch in the water is nearly free (you would think) and it will be the freshest right?  Why not just save the time and buy at your nearest super market right.   It's not as fresh, as what you can catch in the open waters, but it's not as expensive as buying all the requirements to go fishing.

Right now, I actually talk to the roaster reps in Seattle, Portland and more.  I'm spoiled alright.  All I have to do is alternate visiting any of the local roasters and when I get my 1 lb beans, it was roasted that same day.  How do I know, I know the roasters and plus it's stamped on the bag.  By the time, the 2 week freshness period has expired, I'm already done with that bag and ready to try a different roaster.  Even have the option to just buy 1/4 a lb just so I don't waste my money if I don't like it.  Right now my roasters I frequent are Cafe Vita and Stumptown Roasters.  There are others on my list.  If your roast is really better than them, you might try and quit your day job and compete.  What I don't have to worry about is the upfront costs.  Yeah, I pay for a little overhead for the beans than you do, but it's justified.  I can think of the additional overhead would be for them roasting my beans for me.  Plus I'm at their designated drop off location every week, so not even gas is considered an expense.  I look at the convenience not having to roast beans having an already busy life style.  I'll spend that doing other important things.

Posted June 11, 2009 link

Why are you here?  This is HOME ROASTING TALK section.  You're happy with your ultra-fresh "I've got connections" roasted beans, great.  Your life-style is busy, aren't they all these days?  We home roasters do it for the hobby, the fun, the cost, the fulfillment, etc.  We choose to roast for many reasons and make it a PART of our busy life-styles.  (Aside:  What exactly does "life-style" mean?)

Six days after roasting 1/2# of Liquid Amber espresso blend in the Behmor (P2), today's capp was magnificent.  Absolutely wonderful.  That's home roasted, from the high-tech Behmor.

 
LMWDP # 010
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wideasleep1
Senior Member
wideasleep1
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,421
Location: Tiburon,Ca
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: VBMDoubleDomo
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Roaster: IR1 and 2,SC/TO,Behmor
Posted Thu Jun 11, 2009, 10:40pm
Subject: Re: How a home roaster unit may not compare to a high tech commericial roaster
 

Can't resist a good dogpile! :P

"By the time, the 2 week freshness period has expired, I'm already done with that bag and ready to try a different roaster."

2 weeks for a 1lb bag!!??!! 'Round here my palate would die in between visits to your roaster. I roast 3 times a week, and need to actually roast more!
BTW, in the time that it takes you to drive, stand in line, order, receive bag, drive home, I will have roasted and already ground some beans fresher than yours. ;)

Lastly, the last pound of Hairbender I bought (shipped 2 days post-roast) was a disappointment...I surfed the temp range from the low 190's past 205, and pulled nothing but sour shots for over a week and a half. I kept resting, hoping it would overcome it, but it never did. I've NEVER had that problem in my roasts. It wasn't just me either, a fellow CG'r I was pm'img with (trying to find the optimum pull temps) had the exact same problem.
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gime2much
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,965
Location: Sunny S Fl
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Posted Thu Jun 11, 2009, 10:40pm
Subject: Re: How a home roaster unit may not compare to a high tech commericial roaster
 

Prof said "Why are you here?  This is HOME ROASTING TALK section."


Absolutely the best voice of reason in a month!!!!

 
Dan Brewer
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espressoaddict
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Joined: 18 Mar 2009
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Posted Fri Jun 12, 2009, 12:09am
Subject: Re: How a home roaster unit may not compare to a high tech commericial roaster
 

As you are missing the entire point of this discussion.  Look at Breeze's reply he was able to provide a very good explanation.  No need to explain why I'm here, ask yourself that question.

Instead first ask ask yourself and understand the other person. If you can't, then ask why, so you will get a meaningful answer as to why things are done a different way.  Remember, not everybody drinks your cup of tea. Lastly, read the entire discussion of this thread to minimize misinterpreting what you think is not correct.  Pour as much energy reading thoroughly this thread like when spent roasting, and your life will have less anger.

I give credit to those who all shared their home roasting experience with us.  Most especially to swines, as he provided some first hand data comparing a commercial with home roaster machine and Breeze for correctly understanding the main purpose of this thread.  This is exactly the type of knowledge that is beneficial to some of us. Excellent reading ability!  

This is the type of feedback for those learning to home roast or already experienced to gain and share their roasting experience.  That's what a discussion is all about to learn, share experiences and then throw in prejudice in the mix.  Once of the avenues in gaining knowledge is by asking.

Reminder this is a Coffee Discussion forum.  There are other places for non-sense kind of talk, but not here.  Be careful to what you say as there are plenty of MODERATORS watching.

Peace!
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JonR10
Senior Member
JonR10
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 10,376
Location: Houston, Texas
Expertise: I love coffee

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Posted Fri Jun 12, 2009, 4:30am
Subject: Re: How a home roaster unit may not compare to a high tech commericial roaster
 

espressoaddict Said:

Be careful to what you say as there are plenty of MODERATORS watching.

Peace!

Posted June 12, 2009 link

Please try to keep the conversation civil guys.  
We have a rule against personal attacks, and some posts here come dangerously close to that.

 
Jon Rosenthal
Houston, TX
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germantownrob
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germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,150
Location: Philadelphia
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Posted Fri Jun 12, 2009, 5:14am
Subject: Re: How a home roaster unit may not compare to a high tech commericial roaster
 

JonR10 Said:

Please try to keep the conversation civil guys.  
We have a rule against personal attacks, and some posts here come dangerously close to that.

Posted June 12, 2009 link

Not sure this thread has any where to go but down hill.
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Prof
Senior Member
Prof
Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 712
Location: Seattle
Expertise: Pro Roaster

Espresso: PV Lusso
Grinder: Pharos 696
Drip: Aeropress
Roaster: Behmor 1600+
Posted Fri Jun 12, 2009, 6:55am
Subject: Re: How a home roaster unit may not compare to a high tech commericial roaster
 

JonR10 Said:

Please try to keep the conversation civil guys.  We have a rule against personal attacks, and some posts here come dangerously close to that.

Posted June 12, 2009 link

Does civil include a severe case of hubris?  If so, I'm with you, Jon.  

Perhaps I'm guilty of feeding the troll.

 
LMWDP # 010
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