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How a home roaster cannot compare to a high tech commericial roaster
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MarkPrince
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Posted Sun Jun 14, 2009, 3:52am
Subject: Re: How a home roaster cannot compare to a high tech commericial roaster
 

Agreed with Ian.

Keep calm. Carry on.

Mark

 
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germantownrob
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Posted Sun Jun 14, 2009, 5:04am
Subject: Re: How a home roaster unit may not compare to a high tech commericial roaster
 

espressoaddict Said:

I'm just a consumer and not affiliated with Velton in any way.  

Posted June 7, 2009 link


espressoaddict Said:

Since Velton sells green beans.  Why not give us your own analysis and see how your roaster will compare with his roast.  Basically, buy some of his roasted beans and then buy the same green beans and roast it on your setup.  Pull some shots using his roasted vs Velton's green beans roasted using your roaster.  Then let us know the results.  That would be great if your roasts are the same, or how knows surprisingly better.

Posted June 13, 2009 link

If you are not affiliated in any way then your use of us is confusing in many ways. Based off of this thread alone you have made sure I will never order from that company so why don't you put your money where you mouth is and order from SM's and try some green beans and roasted beans from someone that is not only a home roaster and a pro roaster and a judge and travels the world to get small distinct lots of greens for many to enjoy. Since you are so "spoiled" I would think you get one of these many places to roast for you on their sample roaster some of the greens. Though I guess a sample roaster is a "high tech commercial roaster",  oh well. If this thread had remained more civil I would have gladly put my Hottop roast up for a comparison for you to taste against a pro roaster, though I still lack some of the knowledge that many pro roaster have I think I would have come close.
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DarkMajestic
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Posted Sun Jun 14, 2009, 5:33am
Subject: Re: How a home roaster cannot compare to a high tech commericial roaster
 

When we decide to roast we also take the role of shaping the coffee landscape. As small a role as a single home roasters contribution may be to the coffee world .. in his home and around his home .. a contribution is made to the local coffee cusine.

I think it's a mistake to blindly seek out the most modern roasting machines money can buy and to emulate the existing methedology of the commercial pro roasters.

There is a characteristic coffee taste that the pro roaster has long ago left behind and it is stumbled upon or rediscovered at times by the home roaster in their attempts to reach a commercial roasting standard in their own homes.

The worst thing that could happen to the home roaster who desires to really discover coffee is to wake up one morning and find sitting in his usual nook a modern commercial roaster with all the directions to roast like a pro !! Hard to believe I know ... LOL

Instead he should reroast with his primative gear .. rebuild the roasting gear of the past .. and search out that which has been lost by the modern coffee world. In doing so he will save coffee.

Certainly something has been lost as is evident in various commercial products from the cookie to bottled beer we see the ravages of the commercial world. Why would coffee be any different ?

Ofcourse .. all this is hype .. as is most of what we hear in the coffee world regardless of where we hear it wether it be the trusted green bean supplier .. the pro roaster that claims to hand craft his roast yet connects his roaster to the latest in computerized auotomation .. the coffee grower who sings to his beans. As always ... what's in the cup is what counts and is what adds substance to the hype which is just hype until we coffee drinkers make it real.

It's not about where lies the best roaster .. it's about where lies the best coffee. Don't assume it's in the commercial roaster.

As I open a slightly over two week old jar of home roasted Java .. I am surprised .. the coffee is far fresher then I would of expected. It has a richness and a sweetness that defies it's age and I wonder can I really get this from the pro roaster ? It's not perfect coffee .. it has it's defects .. but amongst them is something crying out to be rediscovered and brought back to the coffee world.

Free from the commercial demands of roasting this mission of rediscovery is the sole domain of the home roaster.

Cheers ...
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farmroast
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Posted Sun Jun 14, 2009, 9:02am
Subject: Re: How a home roaster cannot compare to a high tech commericial roaster
 

The more one understands different heat applications and transfer the more one will understand the different characteristics that different roaster types will produce. Producing the same is rather impossible, different is more realistic and better is a matter of opinion.

 
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germantownrob
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Posted Sun Jun 14, 2009, 9:21am
Subject: Re: How a home roaster cannot compare to a high tech commericial roaster
 

farmroast Said:

The more one understands different heat applications and transfer the more one will understand the different characteristics that different roaster types will produce. Producing the same is rather impossible, different is more realistic and better is a matter of opinion.

Posted June 14, 2009 link

Do cupping scores try to compensate for this difference?
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farmroast
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Posted Sun Jun 14, 2009, 9:42am
Subject: Re: How a home roaster cannot compare to a high tech commericial roaster
 

germantownrob Said:

Do cupping scores try to compensate for this difference?

Posted June 14, 2009 link

Say pro roaster X using a Probat roasts a particular green and sends it to Ken and it scores a 92 and homeroaster y roasts the same beans on a modified popper and sends to Ken and also scores a 92. Would the cup taste the same? Which one would be better? Could either Roaster change their profile to match the other in the cup?

 
Ed Bourgeois... LMWDP #167
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MGLloyd
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Posted Sun Jun 14, 2009, 9:57am
Subject: Re: How a home roaster cannot compare to a high tech commericial roaster
 

Since Velton sells green beans.  Why not give us your own analysis and see how your roaster will compare with his roast.  Basically, buy some of his roasted beans and then buy the same green beans and roast it on your setup.  Pull some shots using his roasted vs Velton's green beans roasted using your roaster.  Then let us know the results.  That would be great if your roasts are the same, or how knows surprisingly better.

I have actually done this very methodology several times with different roasters, albeit not with this particular roaster.  Consistently, the results are that the coffee roasted at home on my equipment is better to my taste.  This is explicable by two primary factors: my familiarity with my roasting equipment, honed by many years of experience and hundreds of pounds roasted; and that I can roast to the specific profiles that I prefer.  Many roasters, influenced by Peet's or Starbuck's, roast to a full city plus plus or Vienna level; whereas I prefer a full city (a few snaps or seconds into second crack).  

The coffee groups I belong to have done similar tests with pulling espresso shots on our home equipment vs. the cafe using the cafe's commercially roasted coffee.  Most of the time, given the level of espresso equipment we have at home (prosumer or commercial), we can pull better shots at home vs. the typical barista..  Again, this is likely explicable by our experience and knowledge of pulling shots that suit our fancy.  I have found it of interest that a professional barista has come into my home, used my grinder, espresso machine and coffee (Rocky, Livia 90 and homeroast, respectively), and pulled better shots than I have using the same items.  She was clearly more knowledgeable than I.  

I am confident that these results of comparative testing of homeroast vs. commercial and shots at home vs. shots at the cafe will not surprise my experienced colleagues on this board since they have likely encountered the same results.  

I think a very key point to be made with this thread is that it is not so much the equipment as the operator.  As others have noted, the primary advantage of commercial roasting equipment is volume and reproducibility, both of which are important in selling commercial quantities of coffee.  But a skilled operator can produce excellent results with any equipment and usually independent of the equipment.  I suspect that Thomas Keller of the French Laundry can come into my kitchen, use my equipment and my ingredients and produce a better meal than I can, because of his experience and skill.

 
Regards,

Michael Lloyd
Mill Creek, Washington  USA
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germantownrob
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Posted Sun Jun 14, 2009, 10:06am
Subject: Re: How a home roaster cannot compare to a high tech commericial roaster
 

farmroast Said:

Say pro roaster X using a Probat roasts a particular green and sends it to Ken and it scores a 92 and homeroaster y roasts the same beans on a modified popper and sends to Ken and also scores a 92. Would the cup taste the same? Which one would be better?

Posted June 14, 2009 link

No, I don't think they would taste the same. The better one would be the one the taster liked best. I think cupping scores can take into consideration the difference in roasters (both human and machine) and to some extent judge fairly with these differences. I like the home roast element since I can change what I roast with, roast to my taste or experiment, and buy from someone who roasts far better than me.

So I agree with you but hey I just started to get a hang of this cupping score stuff so I am trying to use it in my day, LOL.
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brentling
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Posted Sun Jun 14, 2009, 6:59pm
Subject: Re: How a home roaster cannot compare to a high tech commericial roaster
 

farmroast Said:

Say pro roaster X using a Probat roasts a particular green and sends it to Ken and it scores a 92 and homeroaster y roasts the same beans on a modified popper and sends to Ken and also scores a 92. Would the cup taste the same?

Posted June 14, 2009 link

If they were roasted to the same profile - sure.

farmroast Said:

Which one would be better?

Posted June 14, 2009 link

that would be a taste test, a subjective one at that :)

farmroast Said:

Could either Roaster change their profile to match the other in the cup?

Posted June 14, 2009 link

The home roaster can modify their gear probably more easily than the commercial roaster, however the commercial roaster in time will have more experience and know what / how to do stuff with the roaster - so yes both could.


To expand on my thoughts - can a home roaster produce a damn fine coffee? yup - but so can a commercial roaster.

both ultimately are chasing different goals - a commercial roaster is chasing amongst other things consistency. A home roaster may consistently roast certain beans, and well, perhaps even exceptionally, but has more freedom to experiment, as the result if negative outcome is a learning experience, if positive, a great learning experience. A commercial roaster doesn't have that absolute luxury.

Both have advantages and disadvantages.
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DarkMajestic
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Posted Mon Jun 15, 2009, 6:12pm
Subject: Re: How a home roaster cannot compare to a high tech commericial roaster
 

Say pro roaster X using a Probat roasts a particular green and sends it to Ken and it scores a 92 and homeroaster y roasts the same beans on a modified popper and sends to Ken and also scores a 92.

It might mean they both sent that same size check to ken ????

Just kidding guys .. some humor .. don't get all geekish on me.

Still there is a lot of coffee out there that never gets judged pro and home roasted. Home roasters don't make hype about there roast they just drink coffee. At least that's what I do ..

Cheers ...
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