Posted Thu Jun 11, 2009, 7:07am Subject: Thinking about home roasting, weighing my options
So, as if I'm not enjoying my coffee habit enough.. now I'm thinking about roasting my own. I'm technically and mechanically inclined but love simplicity as well as technical stuff. I'm trying to see where I should start and approx how much I should figure on $ investment and time investment.
My current set up is a: Cuisenart CM-100, modded with a La Pavoini 51mm basket and bottomless PF handle. (it's not the greatest but it does the trick) The grinders.. currently I have a 1984 Racilio Jacky (conical but sounds like a jet taking off when grinding) and a Compak K6 modded with the doser sweeper tape trick and removed autoswitch. (I'm debating trading this for something smaller and easier, I spent 1/2lb this morning and got 1 good shot, went back to the jacky and fired off 4 doubles without thinking, this is another matter though)
I currently go through about 1 to 1.5 lbs of beans a week through various forms of drinks, seldom straight shots but some times. What I'm targeting is the cappa and latte area so I dont have to be scientifically dead on in my roasts to get something tasty (in my opinion, I know there is something to be said about anything mixed 8 to 1 and still having 'character'. But i do usually pull 4 doubles a morning so I go through a decent amount of beans.
Local prices are usually in the $13 a12oz bag and 1lb bags roasted run me about $15 to $17 with shipping. I would like to offset this, and devote a bit more time to my new hobby. (My other hobby, drag racing trucks is out of season until Nov) At some point in time I would love to have my own storefront, possibly selling my own beans, but would like to get into it first. The comercial roaster is quite some time off, and I need to prove that I can do it first.
So my options: My wifes 3 burner Tuscany grill with IR and a roto set up (prolly not the RK Drum but something like it, I'll prolly build it as I can do that type of stuff. A Breadbox and heatgun (I have a heat gun somewhere....) A Turbo Oven and Stir Crazy (Yup I've been all over the roaster forums last week..) A Soup pot roaster (Based off the side burner of the grill) or a Behmor, which I did tons of reading on last night, just can't get the wife to sign off on it unless I can show that the grill roaster will end up costing as much.
So a question on the grill roaster, would I end up with bar-bq chicken or Carne Asada flavored Kenyan? or vise versa with a Guji flavored Porterhouse... if I didn't go all out and clean it spotless when switching from one to another?
I lean away from the TO/SC because it's hard to impresss a friend by saying I roast my coffee in 'this' :pointing to a UFO with a power cord:
I'm leaning toward the Behmor due to simplicity and complexity. I'm a ex machinist, woodworker, programmer, fabricator etc... It's simple enough that I could have designed it yet cost effective that it's not stupid over priced. (I would pick up a refub or a used one in a heart beat)
So what I'm looking for is real world experience of the above types of roasters. I'd like to roast 2 lbs a week, on occasion more. I understand profiling, and controlling the roast. We drink usually lighter, or chocolate'r blends so I have been making rounds finding greens that I think will satisfy. Currently I'm hooked on Sweet16 from Klatch but they are roasting it for me
Posted Fri Jun 12, 2009, 6:53am Subject: Re: Thinking about home roasting, weighing my options
I went through just about every way of roasting you can until i started using the Bread machine heat gun set up. For me this works great, can do a pound easily at a time and you can see how your roast is coming along and have a way of varying the heat you put to the roast with a router rheostat from Harbor Fright $19.00. The bread machine from the good will store you use it only to stir the beans on the dough cycle. All the heat comes from the heat gun.
The drum type roaster you use your ears only you cant see how the roast is coming along.
The other part is cooling the beans as fast as you can, to keep the roast where you want it, and not baking the beans. I use a 5 gallon plastic bucket with a stainless steel bowl that fits in the open end snug or use weather striping foam to make it a tight fit. In this bowl i have drilled about 100+ 1/8" holes in the bottom. About 5 inches up i have a hole in the side of the bucket to attach the shop vacuum hose. With this set up i can cool beans from 400+ degrees to room temp in about one minute flat. by drawing ambient air through the bean mass.
I also use the shop vacuum to vacuum up the chaff from roasting the bean and any left is sucked down off the beans by the cooling process. Makes for very clean roasted beans. This also controls any chaff fires.
Tip: Try and find a #2 pound bread machine it has a much deeper pan, and check for a metal impeller in the bottom.
You will find this dose as good a job as any of the commercial machines out there for far less money
Posted Fri Jun 12, 2009, 8:03am Subject: Re: Thinking about home roasting, weighing my options
Hi Erik, I've roasted using a Cafe Rosto (glorified popper with chaff collector), a SC/TO, a Behmor, and RK Drum setup
azerik Said:
My wifes 3 burner Tuscany grill with IR and a roto set up (prolly not the RK Drum but something like it, I'll prolly build it as I can do that type of stuff.
There are reasonably priced drums available for this that have the design and experimentation done already. You can always make one yourself, but be prepared to do a few iterations because it may not be quite as simple as it seems.
That said, this is my current preference for roasting because I can use it to produce good-to-excellent results and because I can easily roast 5-6 pounds of various coffees in just a couple of hours. It takes some practice to get good with the drum, and I need to watch, listen, and smell (measuring temperatures is extremely helpful too). My preferred batch size is about 1 pound minimum and 2 pounds maximum (with the RK 4 pound drum)
I don't use my food BBQ for roasting and I don't cook food in my coffee roaster. Sorry I can't answer what effects this might have...but coffee roasting is a mess with the smoke and chaff that I don't want to manage with my food BBQ grill.
azerik Said:
I lean away from the TO/SC because it's hard to impresss a friend by saying I roast my coffee in 'this' :pointing to a UFO with a power cord:
My friends are impressed that I roast my own coffee, most don't seem to care what appliance I use. The SC/TO is a great roaster and I used mine exclusively for a few years. It offers a very hands-on experience and allows you to measure bean mass temperature pretty easily. I used a Variac with mine so I could tweak my roast profiles, and in general this cobbled setup lends itself to tinkering. It also lets you roast a pretty good volume with batch sizes up to a full pound (12-14 ounces green seemed to be the sweet spot for my setup).
azerik Said:
I'm leaning toward the Behmor due to simplicity and complexity. I'm a ex machinist, woodworker, programmer, fabricator etc... It's simple enough that I could have designed it yet cost effective that it's not stupid over priced. (I would pick up a refub or a used one in a heart beat)
The Behmor is a great product and if I only roasted a pound or two per week I would probably use it ALL of the time. Owning one I can say it is well worth the purchase price, and I have logged hundreds of Behmor roasts.
The Behmor doesn't lend itself to tinkering, but you can alter the roast profiles a bit with programming and/or use of a variac. I find that 1/2 pound batch size gives me the control I like and produces great results for me.
Which to choose? I still have all three of the above because they have different desireable characteristics.
wideasleep1 Senior Member Joined: 19 Feb 2005 Posts: 1,057 Location: Sausalito,Ca Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: VBMDoubleDomo Grinder: Mahlkoenig K30 Vario Vac Pot: nope Drip: Bodum Press Roaster: IR1 and 2,SC/TO,Behmor
Posted Fri Jun 12, 2009, 9:13am Subject: Re: Thinking about home roasting, weighing my options
Coming from popper->iRoasts->SC/TO->Behmor, I can tell you the best results (even for brand newbs) are most easily obtained using the Behmor. I have yet to roast using a bbq drum, as my volume requrements (more specifically, my drinking habits..I prefer to roast smaller batches rested a few days, every few days for a constant supply of fresh pulls) don't quite match my needs. I have been contemplating a second Behmor, mainly for the purpose of rolling two smaller batches of two origins/blends at the same time (well, back to back), although I can see this also fulfilling the gap of adding bulk volume overall. The need to tweak still exists for some, and Behmors offers influence over the profiles, but obviously to a limited degree by comparison to other manual roasting methods, owing to it's automation. I usually recommend skipping most of the cobbled solutions (despite the minimal investment) and go directly to Behmor if you want to hit the ground running. Once mastered, and left wanting tweakability, there are plenty of options over the financial spectrum, from Pilgrims HG/BM or DB setups, to PID'd 'frankenroasts'. At Behmor's pricepoint and support level, I have no reservations recommending it, nor any regrets using it over the others methods I've used in the past, some of which I do regret. LOL (dont ask how many poppers or Stir Crazys I've killed!)
Rancilio Senior Member Joined: 12 Dec 2008 Posts: 418 Location: New Jersey Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Giotto Premium Grinder: Mazzer Mini Roaster: Back to Basics Popcorn...
Posted Fri Jun 12, 2009, 10:08am Subject: Re: Thinking about home roasting, weighing my options
I have been using the back to basics popcorn popper over a gas stove to roast my 2 pounds of coffee beans at a time and it works like a charm, giving me a perfectly even city roast every time. The coffee blend that I love is made of 30% Indian mansooned malabar AA and 70% Kenya AA. The Indian coffee gives me a very low acidity and a ton of crema on my espresso double shot, when the Kenya rounds it up with a sweet chocolaty after taste that it drives you to have a second cup of coffee.
To roast 2 pounds of coffee it takes me excactly 20 min. Mr.T
Posted Fri Jun 12, 2009, 12:00pm Subject: Re: Thinking about home roasting, weighing my options
THanks for the input!
I just realized I refered to it as my wifes grill yet she's cooked once on it and I cook once every 4 days on it, hmm. Looks like the grillwork is out of the question as there appears more cleaning and mess though I did have a coffee crusted steak a while back at some fufu place in Scottsdale....
I guess for now I am lookig in the less than $100 range to roast 1 lb possibly 2 a week. My drinking habits (which I really think I might have a problem drinking 5 or so lattes a day) pretty much put me to about a lb a week. But if I'm futzing with a grinder I end up hammering 1/2 lb a morning (Just did it again this morning after a burr swap on one of the k6's last night)
I'd like to have a Behmor but the $300 is making me shy away, but yes I totally agree that It should be a 1 shot 1 kill kinda thing and I should go for the basic, easy to use set up. (I am an impulse buyer so the fact I dont have one on the way yet is actually because I planned on using the 8lbs of coffe that come with some of them, to get me through 3 to 5 weeks, +/- whatever I torch in getting to know the Behmor.
Is there a decent set of plans for a breadmachine set up somewhere? I have a Savers just down the street and a Harbor Freight next door, looks like it might be a sign.... hahaha
Posted Fri Jun 12, 2009, 2:22pm Subject: Re: Thinking about home roasting, weighing my options
I guess for now I am looking in the less than $100 range to roast 1 lb possibly 2 a week.
I'm sure you would save at least $6.00 a pound roasting your own and so in one year save $312. to $614. !!! Do they still give away free beans at Sweet Marias ?? If so add that to the equation.
As many here can voucher .. you will most certainly upgrade if you start out with less of a machine. That will add to your cost.
Indeed one can roast coffee many different ways and those that like to tinker and invent their own roasting set ups will certainly continue to do so BUT if you just want to roast coffee without the mess and spending lots of time with trial and error then the tinkering days are a bit in the past.
gime2much Senior Member Joined: 10 Dec 2004 Posts: 1,395 Location: Sunny S Fl Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Pavoni, Astoria comm, 2... Grinder: La Pavoni Zip, Bunn... Drip: Bunn comm Roaster: Popcorn popper (air),co/ufo
Posted Fri Jun 12, 2009, 4:56pm Subject: Re: Thinking about home roasting, weighing my options
Lots of great advice from well respected members. The only thing I could add is that from my personal experience you can't go wrong starting out on a popper. It's very cheap but most important it allows you to learn what happens during the roast and how the variables can effect the outcome. I used this method for my first 6 months roasting.
A co/ufo modified somewhat will get you an even better roast while still allowing you to control the process. That was my second adventure and I still use one on a regular basis.
The Behmor is a great unit but does have some draw backs mainly lack of user controls. Think automatic transmission. Not to say you can't come up some cheats but I do miss the total control that either of the other mentioned methods allow.
gimpy Senior Member Joined: 8 May 2007 Posts: 148 Location: Flagstaff, Az Expertise: I like coffee
Grinder: Zassenhaus Drip: the AeroPress Roaster: Target Toastmaster hot air...
Posted Sat Jun 13, 2009, 6:41am Subject: Re: Thinking about home roasting, weighing my options
azerik, like you, I go through about a pound of green coffee beans a week (I order about 12 pounds every 3 months or so from SM although I have about 15 pounds sitting in Phx right now as I type, according to the UPS web site, scheduled for delivery on Monday :>)). I drink two cups of coffee a day (on my second one now) although I may go for another cup when this one is finished off (wife does not drink coffee). This averages out to about a dollar a day just for my coffee for these two cups of coffee. I use the AeroPress for my brewer, the Zass for my grinder and an air popper for my roaster (normally). The cost of the 15 pounds of beans plus a small storage tin and shipping from SM was just over $100. I do not drink espresso, although I will drink an espresso "strength" cup using the AP every once in a while.
I would own a Behmor if I could justify the price with my wife (I will one of these days :>)). I am not sure what you mean by a "soup pot roaster", but it sounds like it might be a "whirley top" type? Occasionally (very seldom) I roast about a pound of beans at a time using my whirley top popper. I only do it when the wife is not home for a couple of days-she did go out of town last night, so I did do a roast on it. You might could roast two pounds at a time using this method, but I have only tried up to about a pound or so at a time. Once you get used to it, you can do a very good roast. I have only used it very infrequently about 6 times over the last couple of years so am not real good at it, yet.
Some drawbacks to it are the smoke and chaff that every coffee roaster makes. I use this method in the house (not outside like my air popper), so it will leave a roasted coffee smell/odor. If you don't go into second crack then the smell is not bad at all. Most of the chaff stays in the pot until I take it outside for the cool down. Don't do this in the house or you will get chaff all over the place. I like using a temperature probe when I use my air popper, but have not found a way to use it with the whirley pop method, so I roast by sight, smell, sound with it; therefore, I do not/can not roast with any real consistency. Normally, when I use this method I roast the beans to just a little darker than what I do in my air popper, but that is because the beans are hard to see during the roast. I try not to raise the lid too long at a time, and the smoke inside of the pot makes it difficult to see the roast color without good light. But last night's roast did come out a little lighter than what I have roasted in the past using this method.
Dooglas Senior Member Joined: 12 Mar 2005 Posts: 489 Location: Portland, OR Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Expobar, La Pavoni Grinder: Ascaso, Solis Drip: Cuisinart CBC, Bodum press Roaster: GeneCafe, Caffe Rosto
Posted Sat Jun 13, 2009, 12:19pm Subject: Re: Thinking about home roasting, weighing my options
Well, you aren't going to alternate steaks and coffee on the same grill so that option is substantially more expensive than you suggest - grill, rotisserie, drum, etc. Also, it is fine to experiment with many do-it-yourself gadgets but expect a lack of consistency and some roasts that will end up in the dumpster. If you want to roast coffee rather than experiment with new ideas, I think you are on the right track with the Behmor or one of its competitors. You will get good results, you will get consistent results, and you will save money. I buy my green beans through the GCBC and typically pay $3-4/lb total for high quality greens. Compare that to $12-15/lb for preroasted. And my roasts are always less than a week old when they go in the grinder. (cheaper and better - life is good)
Symbols: = New Posts since your last visit = No New Posts since last visit = Newest post
Forum Rules: No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards. No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum. No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum. Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards. Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics. Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies. Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies. Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts. Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
= No New Posts since last visit 