Posted Sun Apr 13, 2014, 2:51pm Subject: What am I tasting here DP Brazil
Aside from a Sumatra roast, this is my first roast that I really didn't care for and I'm trying to figure out why. It is Brazil Dry process Fazenda IP Yellow Bourbon. I've tried several different finish temps and there's still this...tart? Like flavor??? This might not be the right word...but the taste is pronounced and can't be missed. I'm just wondering if this is something idiosyncratic to this farm? Region? I don't know. I could be doing something wrong and you all have no idea what I'm talking about.
SproBro Senior Member Joined: 11 Feb 2014 Posts: 80 Location: Topeka, KS Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: CC1 v1.5 Grinder: Compak K10PB, Vario
Posted Tue Apr 15, 2014, 8:59am Subject: Re: What am I tasting here DP Brazil
Is it an unsweetened grape juice like tartness? I'd say its somewhat typical of a pulped natural brazil.
I'm pulling the Fazenda Rainha (yellow bourbon) pulped natural(dry) process as an espresso right now and get mostly dark caramel and chocolate flavors with some delicate (light raisen or white grape) acidity and fantastic body, but the acidity is definitely is not very pronounced; and all this out of a light-medium roast. I've had a number of brazils, and they've all had more emphasized darker tones (chocolate,caramel,toffee, etc) than their acidic tones, but their mouthfeel is creamy and heavy. Sumatras are also well known for their low acidity, so maybe its the lack thereof your not liking?
If your a fan of ethiopians, brazils will (as far as my experience) not have the acidity you want.
Posted Tue Apr 15, 2014, 8:52pm Subject: Re: What am I tasting here DP Brazil
Looking at Tom's description on these beans, I'm trying to imagine what went wrong in the roast... It should be fairly easy to get a pleasing result through a wide roast range.
It's a Dry Process bean, so there is additional pulp on the bean that will insulate and slow the initial drying. I would suggest you try to slow the initial ramp to drying by 30 sec to a minute. As the beans reach 260-300F they should release a bunch of chaff, then you can pick up the pace a bit to first crack. He doesn't mention elevation, so perhaps a bit lower grown which would call for a slower ramp as well.
Really just a WAG, but I think it should be easy to make this coffee into a crowd pleaser. A DP Brazil Bourbon with chocolate, nuts, fruit, well balanced and moderate acidity. Clean and uniform cup scores; ...what's not to like?
Posted Sat Apr 19, 2014, 10:29am Subject: Re: What am I tasting here DP Brazil
I have been drinking this as SO espresso, and I really like it.
I'm not doing anything special with this bean. Ramp straight to FC at 20F per minute (BT RoR). Around 10:45 to the first snaps. Then lower heat and ramp at 10F per minute for another 3:30. Eject just short of SC.
What kind of roaster do you use? I'm using a Hottop, and would be happy to compare roasting notes if you are using the same.
Rich, it's very possible that I am going too fast. I will be happy to post some of my roasting notes and see what you all think even though they won't translate.
Each batch was 120g. Preheated roaster for 5 mins. I'm doing a 3 min dry at 850W which gets me up to BT 284-290. On one roast I hit FC at 7:40 404BT, and finished at 10:30 with a final BT of 424. On the other roast I hit FC at 9:00 BT 411 and finished at 11:30 at BT 430. Both roasts had the same strong grape taste. I'm going to have to start buying more than 1lb bags at a time so I can play with the profiles and learn more. It might be something that I need to acquire a taste for. Heck when I was younger I would never have dreamed of drinking a Cabernet...lol.
Frost, I did get a dimmer for this thing so I can turn the fan down a bit after the initial dry so I don't have to crank it up to 1300w to get to FC. I just haven't had any time to install it.
Posted Sun Apr 20, 2014, 1:05pm Subject: Re: What am I tasting here DP Brazil
Regardless of roaster type, one thing you can glean from Jim's advice is to pay attention to BT rate of rise. A range between 20-30F per minute is a good rule of thumb for an air roaster. Even if you aren't logging the data, just pick a time after drying completes, 300F or so, and clock 30 second interval; BT should rise 10-15F. up until first crack starts. Then slow the RoR to 7-10F per minute or so.
You are starting at 850Watts for drying and this completes drying at about 3 minutes; a bit fast for a Dry Process bean, so next batch lower the power to maybe 800Watts, and shoot for closer to 4 minute drying. Drying times will be faster in an air roaster due to faster heat transfer of the moving air.
For the finish times you have 2.5 minutes and just under 3 minutes. You see quite a few roast profiles now with these faster finish times. I spent quite a bit of time working these faster finish roasts a few years back, and trading faster finish for more time before first crack. For the record, none have worked out well for me. I have always had much better results to keep the pace and heat momentum leading up to first crack, and to then carefully stretch the finish after first crack starts. I would shoot for the 3.5 minute finish that Jim is using. That's about right in the middle of my sweet spot range.
...but do your own tests; run the same profile but vary the finish times from 2.5 to 3.5 minutes. Taste and compare. ( obviously you will need to adjust heat level according to get the same roast degree with different finish times.)
I'm not sure what to make of the 'unsweetened grape juice' you are getting; it doesn't show up in Sweet Maria's taste notes nor does it sound like a 'typical' DP Brazil Bourbon. Chocolate, nuts, fruit, moderate acidity and a full body is what I would expect, and it should make an easy to pull SO espresso or blender.
Posted Mon Apr 21, 2014, 2:47am Subject: Re: What am I tasting here DP Brazil
I really appreciate all your advice. I will get this bean again next time I order (more than a pound also) and try the longer dry time. I must be doing something wrong here. Like you say Frost, there's nothing in SM's tasting notes that suggest anything close to what I'm tasting. Their notes made me pick this one...it sounded amazing. Right now I have a Guatemalan Patzun that's just knocking my socks off.
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