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Caffeine Withdrawal and DMS-5
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NobbyR
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Posted Fri Jun 7, 2013, 7:34am
Subject: Re: Caffeine Withdrawal and DSM-5
 

dana_leighton Said:

First, it's DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual)

Posted June 7, 2013 link

Sorry, typing error.

dana_leighton Said:

, and second, you're incorrect. These symptoms are in the diagnostic criteria for caffeine intoxication. The DSM does cover caffeine withdrawal, so you're correct that it does address dependency. The DSM uses the more general term "substance use disorders" to cover any impairment in functioning that is traced to substance use.

Posted June 7, 2013 link

Well, maybe so. But I wouldn't necessarily call "signs, developing during, or shortly after, caffeine use" intoxication. It can refer to an ovedose, but phrased like that also to normal doses. I haven't read the DSM. You seem to have, so you're probably right that the listed symptoms refer to intoxication. However, the way Anthony (AntWilliams90) quoted it, that was unclear. At least to me.

Don't get me wrong. I won't deny that there are medical conditions like caffeine addiction and intoxication. It's just that IMHO caffeine dependency isn't really a health issue, unless the person involved finds it so. If you feel fine drinking like five cups of coffee per day, it'll be okay from any medical point of view in most cases of otherwise healthy human beings. And it probably won't do you any harm. Finally, from my personal point of view it's not a mental disorder, again unless it troubles you.

 
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dana_leighton
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Posted Fri Jun 7, 2013, 7:50am
Subject: Re: Caffeine Withdrawal and DSM-5
 

NobbyR Said:

it's not a mental disorder, again unless it troubles you.

Posted June 7, 2013 link

You got it right!! That's why (almost?) all diagnostic categories in the DSM include the specification that it causes "distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning."

I recommend reading the DSM, but warning: when you do, you will begin to suspect that you and all your friends and family have a disorder. But diagnosis depends on more than diagnostic criteria! Leave diagnosis to trained professionals :) :)

 
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NobbyR
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Posted Fri Jun 7, 2013, 10:33am
Subject: Re: Caffeine Withdrawal and DSM-5
 

dana_leighton Said:

I recommend reading the DSM, but warning: when you do, you will begin to suspect that you and all your friends and family have a disorder.

Posted June 7, 2013 link

LOL. I sometimes suspect that without having read the DSM.

 
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coffeeguydenton
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Posted Sun Jun 23, 2013, 5:18am
Subject: Re: Caffeine Withdrawal and DMS-5
 

AntWilliams90 Said:

Overdosing on caffeine will kill you. To consume enough caffeine to kill you, drinking only espresso, will take somewhere in the realm of 150 - 200 shots of espresso. So yeah, drinking coffee is not going to kill you - you'd die of something else first no doubt...
However. Monster Energy Drinks were caught up in a legal battle after a 14 year old died - he coroner’s report described “caffeine toxicity” as contributing to her death. There are real health issues related to caffeine consumption.

And correctly so! Dependency on a drug is a bad thing! How is it not? If someone comes to you, and says "I can't do a thing during the day unless I have several strong coffees at regular intervals. I am LITERALLY dependent on it." Are you really telling me that the answer is "It's fine, it won't kill you, just keep drinking it."?

And on a final note. Please avoid referring to ANY mental illness as a disease.

Posted June 6, 2013 link

Disease:
  1. A disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, esp. one that produces specific signs or symptoms
  2. A particular quality, habit, or disposition regarded as adversely affecting a person or group of people.

And regarding the girl who died, coroners report any unusual findings, so that really doesn't prove much.  The only significant study I am aware of demonstrating a link between caffeine consumption and heart disease was debunked because it didn't account for the higher percentage of smokers in the coffee drinking cohort.  Once corrected for smoking, there was no statistically significant difference in the cohorts.
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AntWilliams90
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Posted Mon Jun 24, 2013, 9:10am
Subject: Re: Caffeine Withdrawal and DMS-5
 

Regarding the girl who died, no one is saying it killed her - the coroner DID say that the caffeine contributed - just like how alcohol contributes to a lot of deaths...drugs are drugs.

I don't understand your point with the 'disease'?! I didn't say that the definition of disease did not fit that of mental disorders - as I made clear in a later post, we avoid using 'disease' or even 'illness' because it infers that it is something which is passed on from one sufferer to others, or that it is to do with germs or filth. Disease has many connotations which just do not fit mental disorders - and a lot of negative connotations which many of those with disorders would rather not deal with.

 
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CoffeeRoastersClub
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Posted Mon Jun 24, 2013, 11:27am
Subject: Re: Caffeine Withdrawal and DMS-5
 

AntWilliams90 Said:

Regarding the girl who died, no one is saying it killed her - the coroner DID say that the caffeine contributed - just like how alcohol contributes to a lot of deaths...drugs are drugs.

I don't understand your point with the 'disease'?! I didn't say that the definition of disease did not fit that of mental disorders - as I made clear in a later post, we avoid using 'disease' or even 'illness' because it infers that it is something which is passed on from one sufferer to others, or that it is to do with germs or filth. Disease has many connotations which just do not fit mental disorders - and a lot of negative connotations which many of those with disorders would rather not deal with.

Posted June 24, 2013 link

I read somewhere that obesity is now being classified as a disease.   The medical treatment was surgical tape over the patients mouth.

Whats up with THAT???

Len

 
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coffeeguydenton
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Posted Tue Jun 25, 2013, 7:45am
Subject: Re: Caffeine Withdrawal and DMS-5
 

AntWilliams90 Said:

Regarding the girl who died, no one is saying it killed her - the coroner DID say that the caffeine contributed - just like how alcohol contributes to a lot of deaths...drugs are drugs.

I don't understand your point with the 'disease'?! I didn't say that the definition of disease did not fit that of mental disorders - as I made clear in a later post, we avoid using 'disease' or even 'illness' because it infers that it is something which is passed on from one sufferer to others, or that it is to do with germs or filth. Disease has many connotations which just do not fit mental disorders - and a lot of negative connotations which many of those with disorders would rather not deal with.

Posted June 24, 2013 link

The inferences you are making about disease are not correct ones. Mental illnesses are diseases. To say that we should not refer to them as such is to change the definition of disease. Once you start changing the definitions of words... well, that's just a slippery slope. Do you think people with HIV like the negative connotations of disease? Or people with polio, or Huntington's disease. Maybe we should try addressing people's reaction to disease, rather than just changing the definition.

The girl had a pre-existing heart condition and died of a fatal arrhythmia which could have been precipitated by anything that elevates heart rate.  This includes caffeine, but also includes exercise.  If she had gone for a jog, the coroner would have reported cause of death as fatal cardiac arrhythmia and exercise as a contributor, but no one would be crying foul that we should not let our children exercise.  People with heart disease should know that there are limitations for them that do not exist for others.  This is no different than blaming Planters for someone who had a peanut allergy dying after eating some of their mixed nuts.
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CoffeeRoastersClub
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Posted Tue Jun 25, 2013, 8:03am
Subject: Re: Caffeine Withdrawal and DMS-5
 

coffeeguydenton Said:

The inferences you are making about disease are not correct ones. Mental illnesses are diseases. To say that we should not refer to them as such is to change the definition of disease. Once you start changing the definitions of words... well, that's just a slippery slope. Do you think people with HIV like the negative connotations of disease? Or people with polio, or Huntington's disease. Maybe we should try addressing people's reaction to disease, rather than just changing the definition.

The girl had a pre-existing heart condition and died of a fatal arrhythmia which could have been precipitated by anything that elevates heart rate.  This includes caffeine, but also includes exercise.  If she had gone for a jog, the coroner would have reported cause of death as fatal cardiac arrhythmia and exercise as a contributor, but no one would be crying foul that we should not let our children exercise.  People with heart disease should know that there are limitations for them that do not exist for others.  This is no different than blaming Planters for someone who had a peanut allergy dying after eating some of their mixed nuts.

Posted June 25, 2013 link

I intend to agree with you.  This Politically Correct stuff is getting to be too much.  Good for you for pushing back on it.

Len

 
"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674

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