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JohnDoe
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Aug 2003
Posts: 459
Location: Philly burbs
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: PID Silvia
Grinder: Mazzer Major, Maestro+
Vac Pot: Yama, Infuze, Santos
Drip: Manual;Melitta Clarity
Roaster: Z&D;Split-Fan P1;Hot-Rod FR+...
Posted Fri Aug 1, 2003, 7:51am
Subject: On the Road to Coffee Geek
 

Since this is my first post here (or any coffee site for that matter)… I will 'hopefully' entertain you with my story to coffee geek status.  I don't think I am quite there yet.. but if you ask some of my friends who have been listening to my story's, they would probably disagree.

To begin with… up until this point, I have been pretty happy with my Mr Coffee Sr. drip coffee maker that an old roommate had left behind.  It does what I need it do.. and will probably last another 10 years.  This is only a weekend warrior.. because at work, I rely on a Norelco Express 4...which never really got used in college but has certainly paid for itself many times over in it's golden years.  I don't consider myself a coffee snob by any means (since I will drink even the worst coffee out there), but in reality I don't think my palette is too refined.  However, when it comes to the free coffee they provide here at work, I draw the line.. because it really sucks.

So, for years I have been more than content with my daily java jolt.  On special occasions, or simply when out-and-about I would indulge in a cup of joe at the various coffee shops (not many to choose from out here).  While I found Starbucks coffee a little hard to choke down the first few sips, the taste eventually grew on me.  Of course, I never really saw the need to pay such a premium for coffee which I could get at a gas station for pennies on the dollar.

Perhaps a year ago (maybe less), I started to take my coffee experience to the next level and purchase whole beans.  I have always known that coffee is better if you grind the beans right before you brew them.  I wasn't at that point yet, so I bought beans from the supermarket and ground them using their grinder at the time of purchase.  It was convenient and the coffee did indeed taste better.  I have since been experimenting with various brands of coffee beans.. and find I like the medium roast/breakfast blends to be my favorite (so far).  There are a number of brands to choose from… and I don't think I have gone through them all yet… but I can't pick out any that I really hated.  I do know that I don't really care for flavored beans.  If I want flavored coffee.. I prefer to have flavored cream.  That brings up something I neglected to mention… for a number of years, I had to have cream and sugar in my coffee.  Over a year ago, while looking down at my growing belly, I decided to cut some calories out of my diet and I weaned myself off sugar.  I still like the milky taste in my coffee… but that may change someday soon.  So anyway, I took the next step last Christmas and purchased a whirly-bird grinder.  I regret I did not do any research at the time and it certainly goes in the category of a 'learning experience'… but I was not too pleased with the results.  The coffee had big chunks.. mixed in with coffee powder.  While I did not know this was such a no-no at the time, I did know that it was a pain to clean it every time and it always left a mess of powder on my counter whenever I used it.  I then quickly returned to the supermarket method of grinding my beans.  I also upped the ante with a cheapo carafe (I think I paid a few dollars at Wall-mart).  It seems to work fine for me… and is a definite improvement over letting the coffee sit on the burner.

Jumping ahead to a few weeks ago… I was planning a camping trip with a buddy of mine.  He was providing the 4 wheelers and tent...and I was going to provide everything needed to cook/eat/drink.  In doing so, I knew that a morning cup of joe was a must.. so I started to research a simple way to make a nice cup of joe a-la campfire.  This brought me to such sites as coffeegeek.com where I could find some great reviews from people who definitely love their coffee.  I looked into press pots and manual drip methods and was really intrigued by the various claims to be the 'best cup of coffee'.  I then expanded knowledge on the subject of coffee and coffee brewing.. by reading everything I could find on the net.  Vacuum pots, home roasting, grinders, espresso machines etc.  Every time I look on the web I start salivating for a better cup of joe.  I don't know what I am missing… but it sure sounds great!

Well, my research is nearing an end… and it is time to start buying some new toys.  The camping trip is over (another story for another time) and I am on the prowl for some new equipment.  I think I am going to start out with a 'simple' vacuum-pot and a nice grinder.  As for vacuum-pots, I have an electric stove and I am eyeing the Yama Vacuum Brewer avail at CoffeeeBeanCorral ($33) or the one avail on Amazon for $40 (Bodum Santos.. which they say is an Amazon exclusive).  For a grinder.. I am not going to the level of a Rocky (since I am not jumping onto the Expresso wagon yet), but I am quite interested in the new Solis Maestro Plus offered at SweetMaria's.  As far as roasting is concerned… I am going to try and hold out for reviews of the new Hearthware.  I just 'borrowed' an old Popcorn Pumper from my grandmother....which she hasn't used it since they invented microwave popcorn… and it is clean as a whistle.  I am really dying to try it this weekend…but green beans are nowhere to be found out here.  I am going to have to order them.. which is what prompted me to post here.  I am going to get SweetMaria's sample pack… but I don't know what beans to buy from coffeebeancorral (if I am going to get the Yama, I might as well get some beans with it).  What would be a good medium roast bean offered at the corral (for a beginner) that will be used with a vacuum pot and a drip coffee maker?

Incidentally, I measured the water temp of my good ol' Mr Coffee.. and it was a pitiful 165.  What has my old friend been doing to me this whole time?!?  That is when I realized I am now a coffee geek.

Note:  I am going to post the specific questions regarding beans, and vacuum pots in the proper discussion group.  I don't know how much attention they would get being buried in this rambling… but couldn't quite complete my story without adding them.  


hope you enjoyed this over a nice cup of joe~
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JohnDoe
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Aug 2003
Posts: 459
Location: Philly burbs
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: PID Silvia
Grinder: Mazzer Major, Maestro+
Vac Pot: Yama, Infuze, Santos
Drip: Manual;Melitta Clarity
Roaster: Z&D;Split-Fan P1;Hot-Rod FR+...
Posted Tue Aug 12, 2003, 11:44am
Subject: Re: On the Road to Coffee Geek
 

Hello again....  I've been at it again.. and have a free moment... so I thought I would fill you in!

Fri pm.. Following my original post, I set out in search of some green beans in the Philly area.  I went to every place I could think of, but they were nowhere to be found.  I gave up hope and instead turned my attention to making a better pot of coffee with the roasted beans I had in hand (a packet of Java Joe's coffee I picked up in Upstate NY).  I was all ready to start buying some new toys (along with the green beans).. but I wanted to get some feedback on the questions I posted here first.  In the meantime, I went window shopping at some local stores which carried specialty kitchen supplies.  I wanted to compare prices there with what was being offered online... since most of the items I wanted would have to be shipped across the country.  I also wanted to check out the Chemex pot.  I was intrigued by some of the things I read about it and figured manual drip would be a good (and inexpensive) place to start in my quest for the ultimate cup.  The problem I have with the Chemex, is that it is glass.  Not that I hate glass.. but I would prefer to have it in a thermal carafe of some sort.  Besides wanting to keep the coffee as hot as possible (it sounds like most people transfer the coffee from the Chemex to a carafe anyway… and the glass is more for looks than function),  I personally hate doing dishes.. so I thought if I can avoid that step without sacrificing much, then I am all for it.  After all, the Chemex just seems to be a glass funnel and the secret seems to be in the filters.  In the end, I decided to create my own homemade manual drip for the time being.  After a little shopping around, I purchased a $2 funnel of sorts from Wal-mart and some Chemex filters from the specialty store.  


Sat am… The next morning I put my contraption together.. with the addition of a thermos and rubber band to hold it in place (the opening on the funnel is just a tad too big). I felt like a mad scientist.  With my thermometer in hand, I boiled the water (I had to dust off a tea pot that hadn't been used in at least 10 years) and let it cool down to 200 degrees.  I gave my beans a little water and let them sit for a bit to 'bloom'.  I then began pouring the water incrementally with a stir here and there. A few minutes later... I was ready to taste.  It was a great cup of joe.  I can definitely say it tasted better than my Mr Coffee.  Was it worth all the extra effort?  I'm not sure yet... but it was good indeed.  

Sun am... same story more or less.  I decided to try the Chemex filter in a more of a bowl shape than the funnel shape it comes in.  My thought here was that it would give it a little more surface area and allow for a better extraction.  The other modification I made was in the area of stirring.  I decided to stir a lot more throughout the process and see what happens.  My verdict- don't stir so much.  I think I went a little overboard in the stirring dept and the coffee wasn't quite as good as the day before.  I don't know if it was too bitter or what.. but it was too something.  

Mon am.... placed my order (with Sweet Maria's).  I went with them due to the great reviews they have from all of you.. and the fact they carried everything I wanted.  I went with the Yama, the Maestro+, 3 Central Coffees, the manual drip thermos doohickey, and the sample pack of green coffee beans.  It was all I could do to not pick up a roaster too... but since I hadn't even tried the popcorn pumper yet, I resisted the urge for now.  My other problem is… which one to get.  I want to try them all!

Sat am.... my order is still en route.  Unfortunately, it is not supposed to get here until Monday.  So much for weekend #2.  Oh well, back to the manual drip thing.  I went back to the original setup.  This time I was getting my routine down and did not spend as much time in setup etc.  Results were also very good..

Mon pm... my order arrives!  I couldn't wait until the weekend and I decided to roast right away.  I got out the popcorn pumper, a big fan, some metal colanders, a stopwatch, a bowl, etc etc.  It was another mad scientist experiment.  I was also under the gun because I had someplace to go that evening.  So I'll be a few minutes late.. this is important.  I thought I had read on one of the sites that 4-5g was the proper amount.  I measured it out... but it looked like too much to me.  Another site recommended 1/2 cup.. so I went with that instead.  I didn't want to take the chance of ruining so much on my first time out.  The coffee I went with (for no particular reason) was the Guatemala Antigua.  I fired it up... and started the countdown.  Since I forgot to order a thermometer I decided to listen for the cracks.  It seems to be agitating great... so I don't have to give it a stir.  It didn't take long... and when that second crack hit..I jumped into motion.  Pulling plugs, putting in mitts, turning on the fan, dumping the beans.. cool baby cool!  All-in-all I think it was a pretty successful roast.  I think it was too fast and needs to be drawn out longer... but it looked like coffee to me.  My only comments are with the chaff.  I kept tossing the beans in the colanders to remove any leftover chaff.  It noticed remnants off the chaff within the crack of the bean.  I wonder if this can affect the flavor of the coffee?  I was also surprised at the smoke.  Based on the sites I read… I expected a great deal more smoke.  No complaint here… but I didn't think it was bad at all.  I did it near my door (couldn't do it outside because it just started to drizzle)..and everything went great.  There was also less chaff than expected.. but it did tend to miss the bowl and float away.  Here are my times:  1/2 cup Guatemala Antigua, First Crack @ 2 min 47 sec, Second Crack @ 4 min 28 sec

I then decided to give my Yama a trial run.. to clean it out and see how it works.  I am running out of time today to give any more details... but everything went as  described in the instructions.  My only real comment.. is this pot seems awful small to me.  I really hate how a cup of coffee can be either 4-6oz depending on the manufacturer.. and an actual cup by my standards is 8oz.  I would consider this a Yama for one.. but I still look forward to trying it.

Tue am... time to try my burr grinder.  Put the beans in.. set it to auto drip and ground away.  Everything went great.  It seems like a very solid piece of equipment and the grounds seemed to be very even to my untrained eye.  It was MUCH better than my whirly-bird.  The only comment/question I have here... is in the measurements.  Since I am not storing beans in the hopper (at least not yet).. I want to grind just enough for what I am going to brew.  I know it is close.. but is it an exact 1:1 ratio between coffee beans and ground coffee?

later at work... time to brew.  Since I was at work.. I had to brew using my little Norelco.  I think I was a little too conservative in the amount of beans I used.  The coffee tasted very good and had a distinct flavor to it... but it looked and tasted a little weak for me.  I will have to work on it a little more...


btw- any questions I have here I plan on posting in a proper forum.. so don't feel the need to answer them here.
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phaelon56
Senior Member
phaelon56
Joined: 11 Feb 2002
Posts: 1,144
Location: Syracuse, NY
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: LM 4 group , Isomac Tea,...
Grinder: Major, Super Jolly,...
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos
Drip: Fetco, Melitta
Roaster: Sivetz , Diedrich
Posted Tue Aug 12, 2003, 1:00pm
Subject: Re: On the Road to Coffee Geek
 

I'm enjoying reading about your odyssey on the road to geekdom!  The crack times you mention sound about right for a hot air popper. Depending on how dark I wanted the roast to be I would sometimes go to about the 5 minute mark or just beyond but it varies by bean variety, ambient temp and also whether the roaster/pumper is already wamred up from a previous batch. I found both crack stage and color to be helpful cues - I would stop the roast just before the color reached the desired level.

General consensus among most home roasters is that a bit of chaff can't be tasted when you brew the coffee - don't worry about it.

I use one of those little plastic coffee scoops - the cone shaped ones that come with a Melitta filter system - one scoop of whole beans appears to be about equal to one scoop of grounds. I generally make it a rounded scoop per 6 oz cup of coffee. It does sound as though you need a bit more coffee for the amount of water.

Also worth  noting that many beans taste better about 24 - 48 hours after roasting, once they've had a chance to fully "de-gas".

 
Owen O'Neill
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MarkPrince
Moderator


Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 5,628
Location: Vancouver, BC
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: KvdW Speedster
Grinder: Versalab M3 Grinder
Vac Pot: A bit too many
Drip: Bonavita
Roaster: Hario Glass Retro Roaster
Posted Wed Aug 13, 2003, 1:10am
Subject: Re: On the Road to Coffee Geek
 

I can't believe i missed this posting the first time (Aug 1) around. Sorry for not replying sooner: (here's the reply)

I *love* these kindsa posts. Keep them coming. And if you ever feel the urge to polish it up and add a few fotos, we have a Guest Column just for you! :)

Mark

 
CoffeeGeek Senior Editor
www.twitter.com/coffeegeek www.flickr.com/coffeegeek, www.instagram.com/coffeegeek (you get the picture)
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medegraa
Senior Member
medegraa
Joined: 9 Jan 2003
Posts: 115
Location: Galesburg, MI
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: ECM Giotto
Grinder: Mazzer Mini & Solis Maesto
Drip: Melitta Fast Brew
Roaster: I-Roast
Posted Wed Aug 13, 2003, 4:43am
Subject: Re: On the Road to Coffee Geek
 

John Doe, If that is your real name,

That is a great story.  I have found the coffee journey to be an equally exciting adventure.  It sounds like you are on the right path.  I have a Maestro and I use the 1:1 whole bean scoop to ground scoop ratio.  It seems to work out just right but I have never really measured the ground coffee.  I just dump it in the filter straight from the bin.  

Incidentally,  I think that you have reached coffeegeekdom.

Enjoy the adventure,

Mike.
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JohnDoe
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Aug 2003
Posts: 459
Location: Philly burbs
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: PID Silvia
Grinder: Mazzer Major, Maestro+
Vac Pot: Yama, Infuze, Santos
Drip: Manual;Melitta Clarity
Roaster: Z&D;Split-Fan P1;Hot-Rod FR+...
Posted Wed Aug 13, 2003, 1:01pm
Subject: Re: On the Road to Coffee Geek
 

Tue pm- It's Yama Time!  I don't think I have ever considered having a cup of coffee after I get home from work…. but I am about to make an exception (hopefully not a rule).  This time I invited a friend to join in the occasion and show off my new toys.  I think the Maestro+ was a big hit... as was the aroma of my freshly ground beans.  As for the brew itself, I have read a few different methods on how to brew with the Yama (heat water in Yama vs. heat water first then transfer to Yama etc).  I chose to do everything in the Yama this time around.  I filled it to the 5 cup mark and added 3 1/2 scoops of ground (auto drip) Guatemala.  I should note.. that we both think the ground coffee is more like a fine saw dust as compared to the consistency I am used to.  I think it is kinda cool like that.  I didn't time it from start to finish.. but it certainly wasn’t fast.  I was very tempted to crank the heat up to high to speed things up… but I kept it on medium heat as I was instructed.  The water eventually went north and I waited for the Yama to start to gurgle.  After waiting what I think was ~3-4 minutes and no gurgle.. I thought it had brewed long enough and I decided to take it off the burner.  The coffee filtered back to the bottom and I didn't see a speck of grounds in the bottom (excellent!).  The coffee was a light brown similar to what I had in my Norelco and lighter than I am typically used to.  I was able to pour out two small cups of coffee with a little to spare (even my friend could believe how small the Yama is).  The coffee tasted great.. but we both thought it was still on the weak side.  I haven't compared the coffee to other regions yet.. but it has a nice distinct flavor as compared to the roasted blends I am used to.  My friend also made a comment on the pleasing aftertaste it leaves in your mouth.. which I agree with.  Clean up was pretty simple.. but I wasn't sure what to do with the filter.  I thought I had read on a site somewhere that the best thing to do is store it in the fridge in a glass of water.  After reading so many sites, I couldn't remember if this was for the Yama.. or a different type of filter.  I decided to do it anyway because it couldn't hurt.

(Later on that evening and after a few loads of overdue laundry, it was too late to start a real dinner.. so I had to resort to an old standby- Raman noodles!)

After using most of my roasted coffee up today (just enough left for tomorrow)… and having coffee on the mind still… I decided to do another roast.  After all, it was only 10pm!  This time, I measured out 4oz of Costa Rican La Minita Tarraz (which came closer to 2/3cup rather than yesterday's 1/2 cup).  I got everything set up and started the roasting process. With one eye on the stopwatch and one ear on the popper… I watched and waited.  The 2 1/2 minute mark came and went.. and I didn't hear anything unusual.  I thought maybe it would take longer to get to first crack since I used more beans this time.  I contemplated looking at the color, but with my particular popper, it is hard to judge color.  I can see it getting darker.. but the plastic top to my unit is an ugly yellow.  I can tilt the top which is designed to measure and dump the popcorn.. but I thought this would cause a drop in temperature and would stall the roast.. so I avoided doing so.  Ok… I took a little peek (things looked ok).  I heard a crack at roughly the 4 1/2 min mark.. but I wasn't sure which crack this was.  When I started seeing some smoke.. and smelling a slight 'burnt' aroma I got nervous.  I cut the power and started the cool down process asap.  It was probably 10 seconds past what I would now say was second crack (wasn't able to take an accurate reading with all the commotion).  The color looked exactly the same as yesterday (which I think is a nice medium brown).  I felt relieved that I didn't see any black charred beans… and after it cooled, I placed it in a degassing bag I picked up at Sweet Maria's.  The entire process took less than 25 minutes from setup to cleanup…

Wed am-
Time to brew my last pot of Guatemala (for now).  This time I brought in a tablespoon measure and used 4 rounded tablespoons.  I also made an unscientific comparison against my normal scoop I had been using for the past 6 months or so.  The scoop I had been using.. came out to about a tablespoon and a half.  Since I normally use only 1 scoop, that means I have been using 2-3x less coffee than what is recommended (I thought it tasted good?).  After I brewed the pot, I noticed that the 4 cups I started with were now a little more than 3 cups.  I don't think I measured wrong… but I don't usually lose that much water during the brewing process.  I will have to keep a closer eye on that tomorrow.  The color of the coffee was much closer to what I am used to.. but unfortunately, I wasn't as happy with the taste.  I guess my palate isn't quite used to 'strong' coffee… but I will try again tomorrow with my Costa Rican using 3 scoops.


btw- I'm glad some of you find this entertaining… that was my intention when I started.  I am not known as being a writer by any stretch of the means.. but I was inspired.  I don't know how long I can keep it up… but I figure I will do my best to document my learning experience at least in the early stages.  Many times I come up with questions/comments in my head that I try to remember to put down on paper.. but don't remember when I finally start typing (especially if enough time goes by).

phaelon56- I did allow at least 12 hours to de-gas before my first trial run (using a foil bag with the de-gas valve).  I know that was the 'minimum' time you should wait.. and  I will probably be more patient as time goes on and I have more beans to choose from.  As for the scoops, I have about 3 scoops now.. problem is, they all seem to hold different amounts even though they are supposed to be the same!  The one that came with the Yama seems to hold a tablespoon with a teaspoon to spare.  Not sure what to make of it yet.  Maybe the tablespoon I was using to compare against was wrong?!?

CoffeKid- I will have to really polish up for something like that… but I will keep it in mind.  I think my grammar and punctuation has gone steadily downhill since I graduated and starting using email/internet.  Now I just make up things based on how I feel at the time… and as long as it gets the point across it is ok by me!

Megegraa- no… my name is Jeff.  I get tired of thinking up new names and id's and then trying to remember them.  Certain sites have more restrictions than others.. but I usually give this one a try and see if it yells at me.  Sometimes anonymity is good.. but it isn't intended as a cover-up.  I also didn't think I was going to be writing as much.. so when I signed up I didn't give it much thought.
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MarkPrince
Moderator


Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 5,628
Location: Vancouver, BC
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: KvdW Speedster
Grinder: Versalab M3 Grinder
Vac Pot: A bit too many
Drip: Bonavita
Roaster: Hario Glass Retro Roaster
Posted Wed Aug 13, 2003, 10:54pm
Subject: Re: On the Road to Coffee Geek
 

JohnDoe Said:

CoffeKid- I will have to really polish up for something like that… but I will keep it in mind.  I think my grammar and punctuation has gone steadily downhill since I graduated and starting using email/internet.  Now I just make up things based on how I feel at the time… and as long as it gets the point across it is ok by me!

Posted August 13, 2003 link

Not to worry - we edit for style :)

But you will have to use your real name if it's published :)

Mark

 
CoffeeGeek Senior Editor
www.twitter.com/coffeegeek www.flickr.com/coffeegeek, www.instagram.com/coffeegeek (you get the picture)
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medegraa
Senior Member
medegraa
Joined: 9 Jan 2003
Posts: 115
Location: Galesburg, MI
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: ECM Giotto
Grinder: Mazzer Mini & Solis Maesto
Drip: Melitta Fast Brew
Roaster: I-Roast
Posted Thu Aug 14, 2003, 7:59am
Subject: Re: On the Road to Coffee Geek
 

Jeff,

Welcome to the coffegeek club.  It has been entertaining to read your posts.  It parallels my experiences trying to pull my first few shots of espresso.  There really is alot to know about making great coffee.  It is a way cool hobby and I hope you enjoy the ride.

Mike.
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JohnDoe
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Aug 2003
Posts: 459
Location: Philly burbs
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: PID Silvia
Grinder: Mazzer Major, Maestro+
Vac Pot: Yama, Infuze, Santos
Drip: Manual;Melitta Clarity
Roaster: Z&D;Split-Fan P1;Hot-Rod FR+...
Posted Thu Aug 14, 2003, 9:04am
Subject: Re: On the Road to Coffee Geek
 

Here is my ballpark estimate for this hobby:

Manual Drip Cones (3@$5): $15
Gold Tone Filters (3@$15): $45
Vacuum Pots (2@$40): $80
Stainless Vac Pot: $55
Fancy Vacuum Pot (1@$120): $120
Chemex: $40
Chemex Filters (5@$6): $30
Travel Mugs (3@$30): $90
Carafes/Thermos (3@$40): $120
200 deg Auto-Drip: $200
Canisters/Bags: $20
Variac (2@$55): $120
Burr Grinder: $150
Popcorn Poppers (4@$10): $40
Popper Switches etc: $30
Misc Roasting Equipment: $25
Rosto: $135
Fresh Roast+: $65
Zach & Dani's: $130
Hearthware Precision: $125
Alp: $280
Hottop or Weber Grill w/ all attachments: $600
Homemade Grill Roaster $120

Total: $2635

Let's say I can save $3.00/lb for my coffee (green beans vs roasted)… in which case I would only have to drink 878lbs of coffee to break even!

maybe I should compare it to *$ instead~

- I didn't add espresso… since I didn't even begin to look into that yet.. but that will probably be another $600-700 to start with.  It would also include an upgrade to a Rocky or a Mini… so throw in another $300 there!


Did I mention the reason I began looking here (besides getting something for camping) was that I was interested in the Grinder/Auto-drip combo that is on the market for about $100.  I thought it would be nice and convenient….


Thanks CG!!!

no.... really... thanks :)
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Notaddicted
Senior Member
Notaddicted
Joined: 2 Jul 2003
Posts: 206
Location: Vancouver
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Brasilia
Grinder: Faema Commercial beast
Vac Pot: bodum santos
Drip: braun old thing
Posted Thu Aug 14, 2003, 5:13pm
Subject: Re: On the Road to Coffee Geek
 

You're not supposed to add it up!!  Who said you could add it up?  One of the laws of 'hobbydome" is you NEVER ADD IT UP...

( I can't believe he added it up)....
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