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Baratza Virtuoso Preciso
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MarkPrince
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Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 5,624
Location: Vancouver, BC
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: KvdW Speedster
Grinder: Versalab M3 Grinder
Vac Pot: A bit too many
Drip: Bonavita
Roaster: Hario Glass Retro Roaster
Posted Thu Mar 17, 2011, 2:47pm
Subject: Re: Baratza Virtuoso Preciso
 

Beezer Said:

Would you say that the Preciso is comparable to the Vario in terms of shot quality?  I have a Vario right now and really like the flavors it brings out in my shots.  I'm considering getting the Preciso as an office grinder for espresso and drip, but I wasn't sure if it's in the same league as the Vario given that it has different burrs, different adjustment mechanisms, and no digital timer.

Posted March 17, 2011 link

Shot quality is very comparable, but not as consistent. The Vario's digital timers make consistency extremly easy with espresso.

In terms of what the burrs produce though, I think the Preciso might actually be a smidge better than the ceramic flat burrs in the Vario.

Mark

 
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MarkPrince
Moderator


Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 5,624
Location: Vancouver, BC
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: KvdW Speedster
Grinder: Versalab M3 Grinder
Vac Pot: A bit too many
Drip: Bonavita
Roaster: Hario Glass Retro Roaster
Posted Thu Mar 17, 2011, 2:49pm
Subject: Re: Baratza Virtuoso Preciso
 

stephenmesa Said:

I've got a question, and please pardon me if I seemed to miss the answer here...

In your review you call out your espresso grind setting at a macro of 10 and a micro of G. What dose were you using with this?

I've got this machine and when I was dosing with 22g, I was right around the 10 macro setting getting great shots, but then when I went to 19g I had to dial it down to around 3! Is this to be expected or has my grinder somehow been knocked out of calibration? It would be a great relief if I could confirm with other Preciso owners as to their grind settings and doses to make sure I'm not going crazy!

Posted March 17, 2011 link

This is interesting - I was using around 19g doses. I found going below 8 would choke the Speedster I tested the shots on. Going to 3? I can't explain - maybe a calibration problem. I'd contact Baratza.

Mark

 
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IMAWriter
Senior Member
IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,929
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
Grinder: Forte, OE Pharos,...
Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup
Drip: Brazen, Kalita, Chemex,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600+, CO/UFO combo
Posted Thu Mar 17, 2011, 2:56pm
Subject: Re: Baratza Virtuoso Preciso
 

Beezer Said:

OK, thanks for the feedback.  

I was not trying to be critical; it just seemed strange to me that you spend a long time on the features of the grinder without mentioning whether it makes good shots or not.  I would hope that it would considering the price and features, but many people feel that the cheaper Baratza grinders, including the original Virtuoso, are not really good as espresso grinders, though they work well for other brew methods.  So it's good to hear that the Preciso is able to make good espresso.

Would you say that the Preciso is comparable to the Vario in terms of shot quality?  I have a Vario right now and really like the flavors it brings out in my shots.  I'm considering getting the Preciso as an office grinder for espresso and drip, but I wasn't sure if it's in the same league as the Vario given that it has different burrs, different adjustment mechanisms, and no digital timer.

Thanks again for the thorough review.

Posted March 17, 2011 link

Elias, by now you KNOW i'm NOT Mark! ;>D...but....
You are correct in your first statement that the Maestro, Maestro + were drip/vac. press grinders. The original Virtuoso could do espresso decently if you sussed it in correctly, but not consistently. A GREAT grinder for Press and vac, though!

The Preciso would be the PERFECT office grinder. Low profile, flexible for sure, quiet, and YES, dialed in correctly, my shots, while slightly differing taste profiles than from my Vario offer similar satisfaction.

Though I'm FAR less experienced than Mark (my only previous grinders for espresso being a Rocky DL and Mazzer SJ) I would say that if there was NO Vario, just the Preciso, I would definitely have switched from the Rocky DL. From an EGO standpoint (bigger is supposedly better, I would have had a tough decision switching from the SJ to the Preciso.

Maybe psychologically, the similar price tag of a new Vario to a used SJ also said to me "if they're asking $429 for this little guy (the Vario), there MUST be something to it."
There was, I actually cleaned out and adjusted my friend Pete's Vario (he had one of the first 100, I believe) and fell in love.
Back to the Preciso
IMO, those with HX or double boilers, might find the conical burr set offers a taste alternative to the big 64-82mm flat burr sets....and at 1/4th the price new.
The fact the Preciso does it all made it pretty hard to resist, even already in the possession of a Vario.

If Kyle or Kyra are around, I'd love to know what they estimate the Preciso burr life to be. These are pretty hefty burrs.

 
Rob J (LMWDP #187)
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KyleAnderson
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KyleAnderson
Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 33
Location: Bellevue
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Dalla Corte Mini
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Thu Mar 17, 2011, 11:52pm
Subject: Re: Baratza Virtuoso Preciso
 

Rob,
I would estimate the burr set on the Preciso to be good for at least 500lbs of coffee. I will be with the burr supplier next week and ask what their experience is and what they estimate the life to be. I'd be happy to post this (even if it differs from what I have said). Let me know if there are other questions I can help with.
Regards,
Kyle Anderson, President Baratza LLC
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tinseljim
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tinseljim
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 40
Location: Coventry, UK
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: none
Grinder: ditting 804-pressed burrs :...
Vac Pot: Cona, Hellem, Yama, Bodum
Drip: Aeropress, Chemex, EvaSolo,...
Roaster: HWP
Posted Fri Mar 18, 2011, 2:08am
Subject: Re: Baratza Virtuoso Preciso
 

Thank you Mark and all so far for the discussion.

I have a question which I havent seen covered yet. That is how the vario and preciso compare for drip and presspot in terms of taste. I realise there are supposed to be less fines in the preciso in this grind range but does the conical burr set also produce superior taste for these brew methods? Sorry if this has been stated already!

And perhaps the underlying question is how it compares with the large commercials e.g. Ditting 804? For presspot and drip, siphon and aeropress etc.

In other words is the preciso the ultimate grinder for brewed coffee?

Cheers!

Thanks again.
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IMAWriter
Senior Member
IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,929
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
Grinder: Forte, OE Pharos,...
Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup
Drip: Brazen, Kalita, Chemex,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600+, CO/UFO combo
Posted Fri Mar 18, 2011, 8:13am
Subject: Re: Baratza Virtuoso Preciso
 

tinseljim Said:

Thank you Mark and all so far for the discussion.

I have a question which I havent seen covered yet. That is how the vario and preciso compare for drip and presspot in terms of taste. I realise there are supposed to be less fines in the preciso in this grind range but does the conical burr set also produce superior taste for these brew methods? Sorry if this has been stated already!

And perhaps the underlying question is how it compares with the large commercials e.g. Ditting 804? For presspot and drip, siphon and aeropress etc.

In other words is the preciso the ultimate grinder for brewed coffee?

Cheers!

Thanks again.

Posted March 18, 2011 link

errrr, lets see...you want to compare a $2k grinder (the Ditting) with a $299 retail grinder? HMMMM.

Not ever having owned/used a Ditting, I'd have to say if you need 20 lbs of ground coffee, go with the Ditting. From all I've read, it is Tops in it's class. We're talking home grinders here, so I'd probably say purchase the Preciso if it fits your needs. If it's not doing what you want...send it back.

All things MUST be taken into consideration when discussing gear. Size, noise, cost, function, build quality, CS, etc.
The other consideration is...do you do espresso?...or maybe in the future?
If so, the Preciso...or Vario would give you all you need. I can say to me there is no difference in my drip quality between my vario and the Preciso, mostly due to the presence of a paper filter.

I haven't completed my taste comparisons between the 2 grinders regarding VAC POT brewing. If Y'all are interested, I'll be happy to post comments.

This is really Mark's thread, as it is a "Quick Look" so I don't want to be obtrusive. Besides, without sounding brown-nosy to "the Boss, " Mark may have a bit more discerning pallet due to my allergies this time of year, as well as his experience.

I'll give it a go regardless.

 
Rob J (LMWDP #187)
My Music Production web site:
www.robertjason.com
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CraigA
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CraigA
Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 11,264
Location: Rexdale, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: PID/PressureMod 2001...
Grinder: BUNN FPG-2 DBC, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Bodum Santos manual, Yama 5...
Drip: Behmor BraZen, BUNN VPR-APS,...
Roaster: Refurb Behmor 1600, BBQ...
Posted Fri Mar 18, 2011, 8:21am
Subject: Re: Baratza Virtuoso Preciso
 

IMAWriter Said:

I haven't completed my taste comparisons between the 2 grinders regarding VAC POT brewing. If Y'all are interested, I'll be happy to post comments.

Posted March 18, 2011 link

I'm interested Rob! {;-D

 
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Joel_B
Senior Member
Joel_B
Joined: 9 Oct 2007
Posts: 1,826
Location: Pacific NW
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Astra Mega II
Grinder: Mazzer SJ, Virtuoso
Vac Pot: Yama 5 cup
Drip: nope, french press
Roaster: Behmor, WP, BBQ drum
Posted Fri Mar 18, 2011, 8:21am
Subject: Re: Baratza Virtuoso Preciso
 

IMAWriter Said:

errrr, lets see...you want to compare a $2k grinder (the Ditting) with a $299 retail grinder? HMMMM.

Posted March 18, 2011 link

Well hang on a second Rob.  Are we not already comparing it to the likes of Mazzer and Anfim?  Also tops in their class?  Seems a taste comparison of nonespresso brewing from the Preciso to that of a Ditting or Mahlkonig isn't that unreasonable.
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IMAWriter
Senior Member
IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,929
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
Grinder: Forte, OE Pharos,...
Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup
Drip: Brazen, Kalita, Chemex,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600+, CO/UFO combo
Posted Fri Mar 18, 2011, 8:37am
Subject: Re: Baratza Virtuoso Preciso
 

Joel_B Said:

Well hang on a second Rob.  Are we not already comparing it to the likes of Mazzer and Anfim?  Also tops in their class?  Seems a taste comparison of nonespresso brewing from the Preciso to that of a Ditting or Mahlkonig isn't that unreasonable.

Posted March 18, 2011 link

Joel, I don't believe I said it is unreasonable. In fact I mentioned to the poster that if he has large quantities in mind of DRIP style grind, the Ditting makes sense.

BUT...comparisons to Mazzer and Anfim are regarding ESPRESSO grinding, both which are not "ALL PURPOSE" grinders.
Also, I don't believe Mark got into "Rober-land" with his comparison.
The Ditting, as a drip style grinder would be as a Rober would be to espresso.

I personally believe the presence of paper makes comparisons of HIGH QUALITY grinders that can do an excellent drip grind such as the Vario, Preciso, Rocky, and yes...Ditting a bit hard to quantify, though no doubt those with exceptional pallets (spelling?) would probably disagree.

I believe even Kyle (with Baratza) would agree he wasn't trying to make a "Ditting-killer," just the "next best" all purpose grinder he could, next to his own Vario.
Truth is, he may have succeeded a bit too well. LOL

 
Rob J (LMWDP #187)
My Music Production web site:
www.robertjason.com
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Joel_B
Senior Member
Joel_B
Joined: 9 Oct 2007
Posts: 1,826
Location: Pacific NW
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Astra Mega II
Grinder: Mazzer SJ, Virtuoso
Vac Pot: Yama 5 cup
Drip: nope, french press
Roaster: Behmor, WP, BBQ drum
Posted Fri Mar 18, 2011, 9:17am
Subject: Re: Baratza Virtuoso Preciso
 

IMAWriter Said:

Joel, I don't believe I said it is unreasonable.

Posted March 18, 2011 link

Um, no you didn't.  SOrry, didn't mean to infer you did.  My interpretation of your comment (the one I quoted) was you thought it an odd thought to compare a Preciso and a Ditting.  CLearly I misunderstood you???  

IMAWriter Said:

BUT...comparisons to Mazzer and Anfim are regarding ESPRESSO grinding, both which are not "ALL PURPOSE" grinders.

Posted March 18, 2011 link

Neither is the Ditting is it?  WHich was suggested to compare taste with NON ESPRESSO grinding.

IMAWriter Said:

Rober

Posted March 18, 2011 link

Is this part of the new Mozzer line?  ;-)

IMAWriter Said:

pallets (spelling?)

Posted March 18, 2011 link

palates.  Pallets are for shipping.

IMAWriter Said:

I believe even Kyle (with Baratza) would agree he wasn't trying to make a "Ditting-killer," just the "next best" all purpose grinder he could, next to his own Vario.
Truth is, he may have succeeded a bit too well. LOL

Posted March 18, 2011 link

LOL, indeed Rob :D
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