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Breville Dual Boiler Espresso Machine
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Dr_Coffee_House
Senior Member
Dr_Coffee_House
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 103
Location: Brisbane
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Minnore III, BCF, DCM Others
Grinder: MaCap, BZ02, Vario,Eureka
Vac Pot: a few
Drip: one
Roaster: HT, KKTO and Antique French...
Posted Fri Oct 7, 2011, 7:43am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler Espresso Machine
 

aecletec Said:

Unfortunately there really isn't much information in the review about the features and how it impacts the quality of the shot (I'm not one for milk)...

Posted October 4, 2011 link

Breville have been a bit quite re the OPV issue, but plenty post now coming through AND plenty of u-tube videos clearly demonstrating systems that are running at 12bar plus...

If you can spend the time reading wading through some of the marketing and smoke and mirrors, there is some interesting feedback.  

Click Here (a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net)

The issue is in sorting the new users and armchair experts, to those that have a better understanding of all things coffee.

Those that have had their systems checked and the OPV corrected, have remarked on the improvement in the quality of the shot. Others are still waiting as those that can not get direct access to Breville staff, have had to return their machines to an agent and that then means a waiting game.

See the posted video of this users method; as to trying to match the numbers and working with an interesting group pressure.  I understand he has taken it back to the service centre to have the OPV adjusted, but they are taking their time.  Will be interesting to see his post adjustment comments..  Others have hinted that their adjustments were not ideal and even a bit low, which just compounds the whole process.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnMwATdTraA


Time will tell if the US batch has been set correctly; to meet the specifications and be aligned with the marketing (see chalkboard).

The unit I have been using is OK and like most systems....  Once the machine is understood, the shot quality comes back to the "Beans, Grind, Dose, tamp methods and the USER".   No machine can ever fully correct for poor raw product OR a user issue.

AND yes, I have had some middle of the road shots, some great and some they were top shelf.  The only sink shots, were while playing and doing silly things...

 
Bling does not make coffee.... Get over it.
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BubbaDude
Senior Member
BubbaDude
Joined: 8 Jan 2011
Posts: 518
Location: Frisco Bay
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Clever Coffee Dripper
Roaster: Hottop 2KB
Posted Fri Oct 7, 2011, 12:55pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler Espresso Machine
 

I see the anonymous commenter's Breville vendetta continues, now supported by dead links and more wild speculations.

 
"I've Scaced many HX/E61 machines, seeing shot variances of up to 8-10F or more. [The BDB] stays within 1F." - Mark Prince
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EricBNC
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EricBNC
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 1,866
Location: North Carolina
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: QM Silvano, LP Stradivarius,...
Grinder: K30, Major, Preciso, Pharos,...
Vac Pot: Sunbeam C30, Bodum Santos...
Drip: Bonavita BV-1800,...
Roaster: Behmor, Melitta, Fresh...
Posted Fri Oct 7, 2011, 1:01pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler Espresso Machine
 

Dr_Coffee_House Said:

Breville have been a bit quite re the OPV issue, but plenty post now coming through AND plenty of u-tube videos clearly demonstrating systems that are running at 12bar plus...

If you can spend the time wading through some of the marketing and smoke and mirrors, there is some interesting feedback.  

Click Here (a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net)

The issue is in sorting the new users and armchair experts, to those that have a better understanding of all things coffee.

Those that have had their systems checked and the OPV corrected, have remarked on the improvement in the quality of the shot. Others are still waiting as those that can not get direct access to Breville staff, have had to return their machines to an agent and that then means a waiting game.

See the posted video of this users method; as to trying to match the numbers and working with an interesting group pressure.  I understand he has taken it back to the service centre to have the OPV adjusted, but they are taking their time.  Will be interesting to see his post adjustment comments..  Others have hinted that their adjustments were not ideal and even a bit low, which just compounds the whole process.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnMwATdTraA


Time will tell if the US batch has been set correctly; to meet the specifications and be aligned with the marketing (see chalkboard).

The unit I have been using is OK and like most systems....  Once the machine is understood, the shot quality comes back to the "Beans, Grind, Dose, tamp methods and the USER".   No machine can ever fully correct for poor raw product OR a user issue.

AND yes, I have had some middle of the road shots, some great and some they were top shelf.  The only sink shots, were while playing and doing silly things...

Posted October 7, 2011 link

Thanks for the info - especially the link to the video on YouTube - good to see someone actually using the machine.

 
I chew coffee beans with my teeth while gargling with 195 F water to enjoy coffee. What is this "coffee brewing" device you speak of?
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Dr_Coffee_House
Senior Member
Dr_Coffee_House
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 103
Location: Brisbane
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Minnore III, BCF, DCM Others
Grinder: MaCap, BZ02, Vario,Eureka
Vac Pot: a few
Drip: one
Roaster: HT, KKTO and Antique French...
Posted Fri Oct 7, 2011, 4:34pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler Espresso Machine
 

EricBNC Said:

Thanks for the info - especially the link to the video on YouTube - good to see someone actually using the machine.

Posted October 7, 2011 link

Here is another's blog..  Warts and All.

Click Here (gqsmooth.com.au)

Lots of stuff to be found with some searching..

(Note:  for the IT challenged, select the  "click here" above; not the isp link.  And same for the links above re the Breville presentation)

I like the the black board presentation  by  P McKnight (Breville and Barista and one of the men behind the BES900) .  More training at this level and above is required for many; be they Service agents or even users.  AND of course the armchair coffee experts, who are becoming more prolific these days....

For some fun reading, do a search on "Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread "  pages 9 and 10 have seen a more open discussions and in an earlier post/topic, one of the sponsors / agents apologised re getting it wrong.  They also advised where the service centres were that could do the adjustment.

OR as one user stated.

" Phil from Breville has adjusted some for other BDB owners and they have seen marked improvements.

Either live with it, or  talk to Breville. It isn't something you can change yourself. "

Take home message...

It is a solid appliance that deserves better than a super market shelf.  However, with the right raw product etc can make a great shot and can be customised.

Reliability and Service support can only be assessed after the fact BUT it will be these two issues that make/break the unit.  

Personally, after some minor issues and some post production mods and a REVISED QC program re the OPV, it could still be a market killer for the low to mid range home prosumer type machines.

(Mobile phone screens make a long post interesting - NOT)

 
Bling does not make coffee.... Get over it.
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Dr_Coffee_House
Senior Member
Dr_Coffee_House
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 103
Location: Brisbane
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Minnore III, BCF, DCM Others
Grinder: MaCap, BZ02, Vario,Eureka
Vac Pot: a few
Drip: one
Roaster: HT, KKTO and Antique French...
Posted Sat Oct 8, 2011, 7:31pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler Espresso Machine
 

I see things are hotting up re some of the users in Australia and OPV issues -  "Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread ".

In addition pricing is already starting to drop from some suppliers..

Listed retail is about $1500 Au but with some shopping around, $1200 to $1300 can be had and maybe even an extra or two tossed in.

I wonder what deals will happen at x-mas time ?

Mind you at  approx $1200 and the warranty etc you could learn a lot in one to two years; dump on e-bay and purchase a more commercial type machine and it would be cost effective.  Then again, many of the extras that set this unit apart are not yet available on the more commercial type, thus the upgrade path may be restricted.   Or you may find that you really do not need those functions ?

 
Bling does not make coffee.... Get over it.
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BubbaDude
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BubbaDude
Joined: 8 Jan 2011
Posts: 518
Location: Frisco Bay
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Clever Coffee Dripper
Roaster: Hottop 2KB
Posted Sun Oct 9, 2011, 4:26am
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler Espresso Machine
 

The discussion of the BES900 at Coffee Snobs indicated that Breville made a mistake in using a Scace device to calibrate the OPV in the manufacturing process. The result was that some OPVs were set too high, at 11.5 bar instead of at 9 bar. So they've changed the process to use a block filter instead of a Scace and are offering a "while you wait" five to 10 minute adjustment for people with miscalibrated machines in all the major Australian cities. It always seemed odd to me that they would the Scace for pressure calibration since it's basically a temperature sensing device that had pressure added as an afterthought. Pressure varies with resistance, and the Scace offers too little resistance for the pressure set with it to correspond with the pressure that would be ideal with a realistic coffee grind.

One thing that we've learned from this is that the person who claimed that machines have a defective OPV is dead wrong, as the problem is correctable without an OPV replacement. What we don't know is whether the US machines currently for sale at a couple of different stores were calibrated with the Scace or with the block filter. Unfortunatly, the video shot by SCG didn't show the gauge during the brew.

 
"I've Scaced many HX/E61 machines, seeing shot variances of up to 8-10F or more. [The BDB] stays within 1F." - Mark Prince
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pocketrocket
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pocketrocket
Joined: 1 Mar 2008
Posts: 17
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Breville DB, Silvia, PID'd...
Grinder: Baratza Vario, Hario
Roaster: Behmore 1600
Posted Sun Oct 9, 2011, 12:51pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler Espresso Machine
 

What stores have it in stock?  Williams Sonoma says they expect it will be in their warehouse on Oct 14th. Unfortunately they charge $132 for standard 5-7 day shipping and $85 tax. Clive's website says they should have it around the 18th, no tax and free ground shipping and $50 starter kit. As others have reported Amazon says temporarily out of stock. If you have Prime, like I do, it's 2 day shipping is no additional charge.
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BubbaDude
Senior Member
BubbaDude
Joined: 8 Jan 2011
Posts: 518
Location: Frisco Bay
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Clever Coffee Dripper
Roaster: Hottop 2KB
Posted Sun Oct 9, 2011, 1:10pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler Espresso Machine
 

pocketrocket Said:

What stores have it in stock?  Williams Sonoma says they expect it will be in their warehouse on Oct 14th. Unfortunately they charge $132 for standard 5-7 day shipping and $85 tax. Clive's website says they should have it around the 18th, no tax and free ground shipping and $50 starter kit. As others have reported Amazon says temporarily out of stock. If you have Prime, like I do, it's 2 day shipping is no additional charge.

Posted October 9, 2011 link

That's interesting. Perhaps the delay is to allow the manufacturing process to be corrected before they ship units to consumers.

 
"I've Scaced many HX/E61 machines, seeing shot variances of up to 8-10F or more. [The BDB] stays within 1F." - Mark Prince
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dagoat
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Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 320
Location: santa barbara, ca
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni Europiccola, BDB...
Grinder: baratza vario
Vac Pot: aeropress
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Roaster: cafe rosto
Posted Thu Oct 27, 2011, 7:47pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler Espresso Machine
 

one of my online friends from a TOTALLY unrelated forum, (sports car racing), just got a Breville Dual Boiler from Williams Sonoma back east in the mid-atlantic region.  That particular location was offering 20% off of any purchase if you donated $50 to a certain children's charity.  He's pretty new to espresso, but he's a quick study... very intelligent and analytical.  He'll catch on quickly if it suits his fancy.  i'll report his findings as he reaches higher levels on the espresso learning curve.

-Peter
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Dr_Coffee_House
Senior Member
Dr_Coffee_House
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 103
Location: Brisbane
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Minnore III, BCF, DCM Others
Grinder: MaCap, BZ02, Vario,Eureka
Vac Pot: a few
Drip: one
Roaster: HT, KKTO and Antique French...
Posted Thu Oct 27, 2011, 8:16pm
Subject: Re: Breville Dual Boiler Espresso Machine
 

dagoat Said:

one of my online friends from a TOTALLY unrelated forum, (sports car racing), just got a Breville Dual Boiler from Williams Sonoma back east in the mid-atlantic region.  That particular location was offering 20% off of any purchase if you donated $50 to a certain children's charity.  He's pretty new to espresso, but he's a quick study... very intelligent and analytical.  He'll catch on quickly if it suits his fancy.  i'll report his findings as he reaches higher levels on the espresso learning curve.

-Peter

Posted October 27, 2011 link

Check out the Crema forums in Australia...

Some interesting and open discussions on the performance and issues encountered by users.

1: OPV 's are not set as advertised, with the current batch.

2: Turn around time for an adjustment or repair; is subject to the workload of the service agents and that means a "drop of and collect" and may be 10days.

3: The group handle can not be removed, should one wish to customise

In addition some are obtaining great deals where they have got a BES900 (RR $1500) and the  BCG800 (RR $299)

QUOTE from member   "I paid $1100 for BES900 + BCG800 grinder."

So if that is the level of discounting for a package, then there is some good buys to be had... And with two year warranty on the BES900 and 2 years replacement on the Grinder! (here in Australia).

CONS:

1:  Lack of  support as to user ability to de-scale
2:  Unknown service agents and skill sets
3:  Unknown longer term reliability
4:  Others (as yet unidentified / confirmed)

PROS:

At that price mentioned above; the functionality is such that a I could see a big take up of said machine and grinder...  And if it lasts 12 months or more (warranty in the USA etc); then do the cons matter that much.

A top of the line coffee machine for the Kitchen and family.  

Save your hard earned big dollars for that classic Italian machine, you want for your self :-)

 
Bling does not make coffee.... Get over it.
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