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Induction Heating in Coffee - the La Fenice Kickstarter Project by Mark Prince
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CoffeeRoastersClub
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Posted Thu May 29, 2014, 7:09am
Subject: Re: Induction Heating in Coffee - the La Fenice Kickstarter Project
 

andys Said:

As Mark said, there are issues with Italian/English translation which may make it more difficult to understand each other. I think what he's saying is that the heating pipe stores some energy, and this stored energy supplements the  real time energy available from the electrical mains. But even with a little storage, it seems to me that 1100 watts is not a lot of power to heat water for brewing big cups of American-style coffee in under a minute. Theory aside, hopefully we will soon see exactly what the machine can do.

Posted May 28, 2014 link

Andy, I could be wrong but I do not believe there is any storage system at all with their induction system.  My understanding of magnetic induction as it is being used here is that the water only passes through the metal pipe being induced and exits at the proper temperature to make espresso.  A thermocouple at the exit providing the input to the electronics to provide the proper wattage to the induction coil around the pipe to assure that the exit temp remains correct as the water flow increases and decreases.  The efficiency of the induction process should be significant as the pipe does not get heated by heating coils around it but is in essence the heating coil itself.

Len

 
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DanoM
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Posted Thu May 29, 2014, 7:27am
Subject: Re: Induction Heating in Coffee - the La Fenice Kickstarter Project
 

andys Said:

But even with a little storage, it seems to me that 1100 watts is not a lot of power to heat water for brewing big cups of American-style coffee in under a minute. Theory aside, hopefully we will soon see exactly what the machine can do.

Posted May 28, 2014 link

1100watts induction heating to a small tube should boil water instantaneously and probably continuously at a limited flow rate.  Even a conventional heating coil wrapped around a copper tube and insulated would probably boil water continuously.  We are likely talking about 10-20ml of water capacity in the heating tube.

Can't wait to see one of these on a test bench, especially one hooked up to a temp sensor to see how stable the temps are.
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andys
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Posted Thu May 29, 2014, 7:41pm
Subject: Re: Induction Heating in Coffee - the La Fenice Kickstarter Project
 

DanoM Said:

1100watts induction heating to a small tube should boil water instantaneously and probably continuously at a limited flow rate

Posted May 29, 2014 link

I'm not disagreeing that 1100 watts can heat water quickly. I'm just saying that 1100 watts, over the time shown in the video (~47 secs), won't brew much more than a 5 oz cup of coffee.

 
-AndyS
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andys
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Posted Thu May 29, 2014, 7:47pm
Subject: Re: Induction Heating in Coffee - the La Fenice Kickstarter Project
 

CoffeeRoastersClub Said:

Andy, I could be wrong but I do not believe there is any storage system at all with their induction system.

Posted May 29, 2014 link

You could be right, I personally found their description a bit ambiguous.

CoffeeRoastersClub Said:

A thermocouple at the exit providing the input to the electronics to provide the proper wattage to the induction coil around the pipe to assure that the exit temp remains correct as the water flow increases and decreases.

Posted May 29, 2014 link

True, although the temperature sensor shown in the picture looks to be about 6mm in diameter. This larger dia sensor takes several seconds to respond to temperature changes, so that the indicated output temp looks steadier than it actually is.

 
-AndyS
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CoffeeRoastersClub
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Posted Fri May 30, 2014, 6:31am
Subject: Re: Induction Heating in Coffee - the La Fenice Kickstarter Project
 

andys Said:

True, although the temperature sensor shown in the picture looks to be about 6mm in diameter. This larger dia sensor takes several seconds to respond to temperature changes, so that the indicated output temp looks steadier than it actually is.

Posted May 29, 2014 link

I do some work with thermocouples and I noticed that too.  They should go with a much thinner diameter probe if there is one out there.  All the thin ones are much longer, probably have to be specially made.

Len

 
"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674

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CoffeeRoastersClub
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Posted Thu Jun 5, 2014, 6:25am
Subject: Re: Induction Heating in Coffee - the La Fenice Kickstarter
 

They met their $180,000 stretch goal and now have 3 new colors to choose from.  Pearl White should look pretty ritzy on it.  $90,000 more till they meet their dedicated software/USB connection stretch goal.  That is a bit of a jump.

Len

 
"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674

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Posted Thu Jun 5, 2014, 9:29am
Subject: Re: Induction Heating in Coffee - the La Fenice Kickstarter Project by Mark
 

andys is all over this one for what makes the logistical difference between a viable prototype and a supportable machine that will have a shelf-life more than it's first run or two of production. When the initial cash flow dries up, then what?

Just as lotteries are essentially a tax on people who can't do math, crowdfunding efforts are more often a tax on people who donít understand business loans or venture investing.

 
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Posted Thu Oct 2, 2014, 9:03am
Subject: Re: Induction Heating in Coffee - La Fenice Kickstarter Project by Mark Prince
 

Any updates on this project? The original Kickstarter schedule says shipments are to begin October 2014.

Anyone heard anything ?
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CoffeeRoastersClub
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Posted Thu Oct 2, 2014, 9:17am
Subject: Re: Induction Heating in Coffee - La Fenice Kickstarter Project by Mark Prince
 

canuckcoffeeguy Said:

Any updates on this project? The original Kickstarter schedule says shipments are to begin October 2014.

Anyone heard anything ?

Posted October 2, 2014 link

If you go to their online store http://www.lafenicemilano.com/store and click any of the machines there is a note that delivery is April 2015.  I don't know, however, if that is an accurate reflection of the delivery dates of the Kickstarter orders.

Len

 
"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674

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